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Author Topic: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY  (Read 56513 times)

4maskwolf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2019, 12:34:11 pm »

Just an assumption. I am leery of those who've played here long.
Good, because if it was reputation-based I'd feel uncomfortably obligated to point out that basically none of those gambits actually worked out, even the ones as town.

Of the newer players here, who would you consider most dangerous as scum?
Pretty much all of you are new to me, so I don't have an opinion on that.  The game just started, I don't have much in the way of scumreads or ideas of who would be most dangerous as scum.

IonMatrix

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2019, 12:57:20 pm »

Crap. I'm so sorry. It's very late when the game started, so I fell asleep. Now I just woke up in midnight everybody seemed to already postted a lot. (Day in your area is night in my area.)

Oh, and Superdorf, I didn't drink enough ketchup, or else I wouldn't be this late.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2019, 02:19:57 pm »

Naturegirl1999
"Hoping not to die" is all well and good, but that alone is gonna get you exactly nowhere. Unless you're scum. You don't exactly have much to go on at the moment, but who is most suspicious to you right now? Failing that, who would you most like to hear from? Put a vote on that person, so's they notice you, and ask them some questions. You'll not get the answers you need any other way.

This is RVS (Random Vote Stage), so your questions don't even need to be particularly good questions! Here, I'll demonstrate.
Gonna be honest, I have no idea.  I haven't played a full game of mafia here in years, so I honestly forget how me and Persus's interactions used to go.
Welcome back, then!  :D
How rusty would you say you are? Can you still lead us all in circles, like in olden days?

PPE: Oop, new thingummy from 4maskwolf... I'll answer next post
Ok
Persus13, since it seems like people voted for him already
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IonMatrix

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2019, 02:28:45 pm »

I guess I'll ask a question then.

Everyone, do you think that there is a over-powered role we might be using?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #109 on: August 19, 2019, 02:36:01 pm »

I guess I'll ask a question then.

Everyone, do you think that there is a over-powered role we might be using?
Maybe, though we probably have a few days before effects can be known
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #110 on: August 19, 2019, 02:41:15 pm »

Crap. I'm so sorry. It's very late when the game started, so I fell asleep. Now I just woke up in midnight everybody seemed to already postted a lot. (Day in your area is night in my area.)

Oh, and Superdorf, I didn't drink enough ketchup, or else I wouldn't be this late.
All is forgiven! Time zones are fiddly things; we'd be mad to expect everybody to be around at the same time.
Since you are here, though, I'll just ask: have you any thoughts on the material we've produced thus far?

Ok
Persus13, since it seems like people voted for him already

That is... exactly half of what I asked for. And it's by far the less important half.

That vote is your weapon, yes, but it's also your voice. You can use it to kill people, but right now you should be using it to talk to people. To vote for Persus because other people voted for him, without putting a question behind that vote is not going to help us. In fact, it rather makes me think you're more interested in remaining within the shelter of the majority than you are in locating mafia.

So. "Other people are doing this" is not good enough a reason. Why are you voting Persus, but not engaging him? Do you think he's scum?
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Pooka

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2019, 02:42:07 pm »

About the mechanics and scumhunting, let's say I'm already doing scumhunting (in the form of voting Persus) and talking about the mechanics so we know what we're into.
That vote on Persus isn't gonna do much given the question behind it's a fluffy thing... you are responding nicely to the stuff I say, tho. Is good!
I mean, we do have to start somewhere simple.

So far, there's nothing upon which I can build my reads on the players yet, however I am interested in the fact you found me "pushing" this analysis early as if there's something suspect behind it.
We're in RVS, we are! I'm just kinda throwing about whatever accusations pop into my head.
Indeed we are. Which is why I used the RNG to vote at the very beginning: it's just the Random Vote Stage and we've got nothing to go from.

Have you thought it likely that I did it out of concern that it's easy to lose this game?
The thought maybe-kinda crossed my head, I guess? I wanted to know how you'd answer.
Why is it so important to convey the precariousness of our situation right now, when we're nowhere near a consensus?
Conveying it now is better than conveying it later. Besides, it's either bring it up today or tomorrow. There's no other reasonable option.


Persus13 (red names are votes, right?), what do you think of this mysterious scroll that is hung up on the wall?
I think its flavor text by the mod to create a premise for us to all be trying to kill each other.

You seem to have played Mafia on other forums. Is there any lingo you might use that we might not be acquainted with?
Very meta.

Anyway, not sure what lingo I am using that you wouldn't be familiar with. Besides, they're all available on the Mafia Wiki, so basically stuff like LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Town!), LYLO (Lynch or Lose), MYLO (Mislynch and Lose), etc. If there is anything you're not acquainted with, you SHOULD ask me (like Naturegirl did with LYLO).

If you're talking about how we go with the lynches, then indeed we need to be. Assuming all lynches are mislynches, all night kills are successful, and there are at most two mafiosos, the game would go like this
End of Day 1: 6 players (two mafia and four town)
End of Night 1: 5 players (two mafia and three town)
End of Day 2: 4 players (two mafia and two town)

We're very likely to be at LYLO to-morrow, unless the scum is a one-man team (could be a singular serial killer as scum and no mafia? never saw a one-man scumteam setup before).
Vigilante is also a possible roll in this set up, which could affect your analysis.
As well as doctors. The point is this analysis assumes all mislynches and nightkills go through successfully, which means no power roles halting or speeding up LYLO. Basically a worst-case scenario, which also seems likely if the scum is an all-star team and no power role townie could deduce which is their best target.


Small setups are kinda dicey like that, yeah.  Either you end up with a potential D2 LYLO or the scumteam has no margin for error and a single random lynch can take them out.  There are ways around it, but they're super gimmicky and tend to cause as many problems as they solve.

inb4 multiple SKs with no factional kill
Precisely. The dilemma of balancing the factions is quite a big deal in small setups. Like a 7 player setup would be best if it's 6 townies against 1 scum, but the scum don't get the scummy advantage of having a partner that they can collaborate with. It takes the "informed" out of the "informed minority" basically.

Pooka: From the other places you've played, what would you say is the biggest scumtell?
The biggest scumtell I have seen so far is messing up the flavor in a flavor heavy game. For example, if we're a bunch of soldiers at a barracks, the days are basically "call rolls" or whatever they are called and nights are the break periods, you don't show up and say you tracked Yuri and saw him sleeping soundly in his house, at night. Other than that, the problem with scumtells is that they could be either subtle, or a town player can show them.

Ok
Persus13, since it seems like people voted for him already
I think you're new here? Worth noting that building "wagons" without a reason of your own (for example, "I found Persus13 to be a bit scummy because of [insert something he said here]") can land you in hot water. Don't vote him because others voted him, vote him because YOU found something wrong with him.

I guess I'll ask a question then.

Everyone, do you think that there is a over-powered role we might be using?
Not sure about your definition of over-powered, but if we have a cop, I hope we can make the most use out of him. That said, if my analysis is correct, we will get only one night to figure out what's going on with our power roles.

Everyone, do double posts merge into a single post? On GOG, I have to wait about 11 to 15 minutes before double posting, otherwise the post is merged...and then it shows as edited.
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2019, 02:48:57 pm »

I guess I'll ask a question then.

Everyone, do you think that there is a over-powered role we might be using?
I'm not sure what you mean by "over-powered". Certainly I suspect town has one or more useful roles, as does mafia. This is a fairly vanilla game, so I doubt those roles are too crazy-over-the-top.
Now I have a question for you, though. Why do you care about roles right now?

Everyone, do double posts merge into a single post? On GOG, I have to wait about 11 to 15 minutes before double posting, otherwise the post is merged...and then it shows as edited.
Nope! Double posts remain doubled, no matter how quickly you post 'em. There's a short time limit between posts, tho. 180 seconds or some such.
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IonMatrix

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2019, 03:21:15 pm »

Now I have a question for you, though. Why do you care about roles right now?
Well, part of the reason is that IcyTea never really did a "at least one of the following role combinations is true" statement(please correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm not exactly sure what roles there might be.
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Persus13

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2019, 04:46:50 pm »

IonMatrix:
Crap. I'm so sorry. It's very late when the game started, so I fell asleep. Now I just woke up in midnight everybody seemed to already postted a lot. (Day in your area is night in my area.)

Oh, and Superdorf, I didn't drink enough ketchup, or else I wouldn't be this late.
No need to apologize. We're not even 24 hours in. As long as you can participate when you're not asleep and have good content, it doesn't matter.

I guess I'll ask a question then.

Everyone, do you think that there is a over-powered role we might be using?
At this point I'm not sure. If we've got a Cop Doc combo that can be pretty powerful, but that requires full knowledge of the set up to work well. Do you feel this question is rolefishing at all?

Now I have a question for you, though. Why do you care about roles right now?
Well, part of the reason is that IcyTea never really did a "at least one of the following role combinations is true" statement(please correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm not exactly sure what roles there might be.
IcyTea did give us a list of possible roles that may show up in the game, but its a link to a list of roles on the Mafiascum forums.

NatureGirl:
Ok
Persus13, since it seems like people voted for him already
Did you just read the bit in red of that post? What was that post trying to get you to do? What was your real goal here in voting for me?

Pooka:
Vigilante is also a possible roll in this set up, which could affect your analysis.
As well as doctors. The point is this analysis assumes all mislynches and nightkills go through successfully, which means no power roles halting or speeding up LYLO. Basically a worst-case scenario, which also seems likely if the scum is an all-star team and no power role townie could deduce which is their best target.[/quote]
My point was that a vig killing people could possibly hasten LYLO.

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NJW2000

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2019, 05:18:08 pm »

NJW2000: I do not have a question for you. How does this make you feel? How do you feel about my contradicting myself with that last question?
It does not spark joy, Superdorf. Why didn't you ask me an interesting question? Does our relationship mean nothing to you  :'( :'(?


NJW2000: Remind me, you've been playing here for a couple years, yeah?  Or am I just an idiot?
Yeah, on and off, I don't always manage time well so mafia is a big commitment. I've only played three or four games tops despite having been on the mafia forum for as many years. Hopefully my play will have improved a little with my mind, but I'm still rather a noob, I suspect.


Thus far, I have some questions.

Pooka: You seem to be focusing on mechanical analysis in a game where not only do "All players have a special role of some kind" but at least some roles are even more complex than that.[OP] Do you think this sort of reasoning is going to be important as the game progresses, or do you think non-mechanical scumtells and reads will be the key to lynching scum?

Persus: So far you've made some big posts and asked three (3) interesting questions, directed at two of the newest players. You're one of the most experienced players here. Is there a reason you're only pressuring weaker targets?

Naturegirl: Do you think Persus is particularly likely to be lynched today? If there weren't three votes on him, how would your answer change?

4Mask4Wolf: You "don't have much in the way of scumreads". Does anyone read to you as town yet? Do you even think about people as reading town, or just not-scum?


NJW's Musings, a.k.a. Thoughts thus far: I'm irritated by the amount of random conversation about mechanics, words, etc. Not much has happened yet, even though 2.5 pages seems like a fair bit. The Persus votepile, especially the Naturegirl interaction, seems a bit silly, as I'd imagine Persus can take RVS pressure philosophical, while bandwagoning is just bad play whatever alignment you are and doesn't make for a fun game. I'll be annoyed if it comes to dominate the game, but I'm interested in how people respond to it, including those peripheral to the event.

I don't have any strong reads yet, but I guess that's ok as the game's just started.
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #116 on: August 19, 2019, 05:41:13 pm »

It does not spark joy, Superdorf. Why didn't you ask me an interesting question? Does our relationship mean nothing to you  :'( :'(?

The game'd just started, and I was trying to put up a question for every person here in like two minutes. I wasn't sure how much gameplay you had under your belt and I was excited and in a hurry, so I just wound up asking a weird meta thing. It wasn't great.

But you're here now, so let's fix that! New question.

Let's say Persus were lynched right now, and flipped town. Who would you be chasing down D2, if anyone? What if Persus flipped scum?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #117 on: August 19, 2019, 05:56:13 pm »

Quote from: Persus13
NatureGirl:
Ok
Persus13, since it seems like people voted for him already
Did you just read the bit in red of that post? What was that post trying to get you to do? What was your real goal here in voting for me?
4maskwolf advised a vote, you are right, I don’t find anything wrong with you, it was more the majority, it’s a bit suspicious urging votes when nothing happened yet
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2019, 06:07:54 pm »

Ah! An accusation! Now we're getting somewhere.

I don't think you quite understand the reasoning behind our vote-flinging. We're not really trying all that hard to kill each other off (at least, not yet!)-- rather, we're using our kill-votes to put a little sting behind our questions. Think of it as a threat: "I am currently voting to kill you. If you don't answer my question in a way that alleviates my suspicions, that kill-vote will remain on you until the day ends."

Strictly speaking, you don't have to cast your vote now. You can just question people. The vote's just to provide a little extra motivation, for now.

Now then... I do still want to see more words from you. Where exactly does 4maskwolf "advise a vote"?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day One: A Hanging Scroll
« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2019, 06:39:56 pm »

He said that it’s random vote stage and that I should be voting. I thought it would be better to wait before potentially killing town
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