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[Superdorf]

- his claim itself makes him the second investigative role in a game with a most probable scumteam of two.

Mm, third investigative role. I'm a Role Cop, remember?

Of course, if we're playing the mod-guessing game... this setup is pretty skewed against town numerically (assuming a two-player scumteam), so IcyTea could have given town a bunch of high-power roles to compensate...

[Pooka]

Also, another observation....notice how Naturegirl lynchvoted? Now, if she were town, then a two-man scumteam could quickhammer me and seal their victory, as Superdorf and NJW pointed out...

Except that Superdorf posted, NJW posted, Persus posted, and I posted. No quickhammers happened. And for a two-man scumteam, why would they leave this opportunity lying on the table? Unless they have a penchant for either screwing up later or prolonging the game, I doubt they wouldn't quickhammer.

That means only one of two things:
- we only have a one-man scumteam
- Naturegirl is scum herself

I hope it is certainly the former, since that would mean the game ends once NJW is lynched. If not, we know who to lynch to-morrow.

[Pooka]

Mm, third investigative role. I'm a Role Cop, remember?

In all fairness, you have a town roleblocker in this game. What would be your reaction if you investigated someone and the result you got was "Roleblocker"? I see the combo of tracker and follower as much more powerful since they say who visited who and who did what. And yes, the game is heavily skewed against town, but I doubt having this many investigative roles would bode well for the mafia.

[Persus13]

- his claim itself makes him the second investigative role in a game with a most probable scumteam of two.

Mm, third investigative role. I'm a Role Cop, remember?

Of course, if we're playing the mod-guessing game... this setup is pretty skewed against town numerically (assuming a two-player scumteam), so IcyTea could have given town a bunch of high-power roles to compensate...

NJW's claim being true requires you to be scum or lying. So if that's the case you'd be a scum role cop or lying.

Also, another observation....notice how Naturegirl lynchvoted? Now, if she were town, then a two-man scumteam could quickhammer me and seal their victory, as Superdorf and NJW pointed out...

All this assumes that you aren't scum.

[Superdorf]

NJW's claim being true requires you to be scum or lying. So if that's the case you'd be a scum role cop or lying.

Ah yes. My bad. I just woke up, still a little muddle-headed.

[NJW2000]

I'd say my arguments are already made, for the most part. Superdorf's scumminess I've already set out, I'm not bothering to do it again. Pooka's play immediately after I called him out should be indicative enough of his alignment, though I might put together a highlights reel of that when I have time. So I'll mostly be discussing their arguments, unless I notice something particularly juicy rereading the thread. I'll try to hold back on too much comment though, Persus and Naturegirl need to be reading the thread rather than our squabbling.

Stuff about whether my role is balanced

I find the whole mod-guessing game rather suspect myself. There are plenty of possible scum buffs that could compensate for follower-tracker. For example, scum might have some kind of immunity, such as Ninja (Ninjas have no results when tracked, see the link to Normal roles in the OP, useful up to a point) or even be Ascetic or something.

So yeah, I wouldn't trust balance-based reasoning, seeing as scum could have all kinds of tricks up their sleeve.

One-man scumteam? That's a pretty ridiculous idea, especially in a setup with this many town power roles. How on earth could it be balanced?

Goodnight all (in Oceania here). I'll respond to questions or point out Pooka's weird ideas in the morning, if any of either are forthcoming.

[Pooka]

Pooka's play immediately after I called him out should be indicative enough of his alignment, though I might put together a highlights reel of that when I have time.

inb4 "he got too defensive (because I said he's a scummy liar) and misread something I said. yup, totally scum." Can't wait to hear it come out of your keyboard.

Also, no, the mod-guessing thing is a good idea to learn what's up with the roles. As you say yourself, we can have a good idea what the scum have up their sleeve. And given the timing of your counterclaim and balancing, I can safely say you don't have an investigative role, certainly not Follower. Even if you did, you didn't use it on me, you nightkilled 4maskwolf.

Now that I think about it, we've been ignoring the possible reasons why 4maskwolf has been killed. I'll make it easy by saying that if she isn't scummy, the scum would have left Naturegirl alive to act as a lightning rod. We ought to answer the question of:

What did 4maskwolf say about the following people?
- Pooka
- Superdorf
- Persus13
- NJW2000

[IcyTea31]

Pooka: Naturegirl1999 (1)

Not voting: Superdorf, NJW2000, Pooka, Persus13

Pseudovotes:
NJW2000: Persus13, Pooka, Superdorf (3)
Pooka: NJW2000 (1)

Day Two ends on 2019-09-02 15:00 UTC.
Extension is available, requiring 3 votes.
Hammering is available, requiring 3 votes.

[Naturegirl1999]

I find the version of events where scum cooperating to come up with a lie about the night is plausible due to the amount of rolecops, trackers, roleblockers and such, so they would expect someone to find out and plan in advance.

[Superdorf]

Hm, let's see... re-reading 4maskwolf's posts...

4maskwolf:
- voted Naturegirl for some early flailing and bandwagoning
- called out me for backing off of Naturegirl sooner than I maybe should have
- voted Persus for early lurkiness
- and sparred with NJW for a bit over the nature of extensions.

I didn't really see much interaction between him and Pooka.

[Persus13]

Speculating over the night kill is generally not super useful, especially since my best guess is that 4mask was killed for being one of the more experienced players who didn't really have anyone pushing a case against him, and possibly his claims about knowing there was a cop in this game.

[Pooka]

I find the version of events where scum cooperating to come up with a lie about the night is plausible due to the amount of rolecops, trackers, roleblockers and such, so they would expect someone to find out and plan in advance.

Okay. It is evident you can re-read the thread. If you think Superdorf and I are in cahoots, can you show hints from Day 1 that this theory is likely? Like how I suspect you and NJW are in cahoots because he was seen coaching you several times in the thread. Can you do the same for Superdorf and I?

Persus and Superdorf:
Yep, 4maskwolf looks like both a safe kill that doesn't silence some major opposition to a player. Him being confident in the cop thing didn't help matters.

[Naturegirl1999]

I find the version of events where scum cooperating to come up with a lie about the night is plausible due to the amount of rolecops, trackers, roleblockers and such, so they would expect someone to find out and plan in advance.

Okay. It is evident you can re-read the thread. If you think Superdorf and I are in cahoots, can you show hints from Day 1 that this theory is likely? Like how I suspect you and NJW are in cahoots because he was seen coaching you several times in the thread. Can you do the same for Superdorf and I?

Yes NJW coached me in the thread. You and Superdorf have a private chat you can talk in. There wouldn’t be a need to talk to each other in-thread

[Pooka]

I find the version of events where scum cooperating to come up with a lie about the night is plausible due to the amount of rolecops, trackers, roleblockers and such, so they would expect someone to find out and plan in advance.

Okay. It is evident you can re-read the thread. If you think Superdorf and I are in cahoots, can you show hints from Day 1 that this theory is likely? Like how I suspect you and NJW are in cahoots because he was seen coaching you several times in the thread. Can you do the same for Superdorf and I?

Yes NJW coached me in the thread. You and Superdorf have a private chat you can talk in. There wouldn’t be a need to talk to each other in-thread

No, this doesn't answer my question.
Can you show hints from Day 1, in this thread, that Superdorf and I are in cahoots?

[Superdorf]

Yes NJW coached me in the thread. You and Superdorf have a private chat you can talk in. There wouldn’t be a need to talk to each other in-thread

What

No. Don't you try and push that on me. I engaged Pooka D1 same as anybody.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174411.msg8013160#msg8013160
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174411.msg8015290#msg8015290
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174411.msg8015624#msg8015624

It wasn't all that much I guess-- Pooka was kinda silent real early on-- but when he said something that seemed odd, I called him on it! When you said something that seemed odd, I called you on it! It's basic scumhunting!

You're right that I didn't coach Pooka. I didn't coach Pooka because he already seems to know what he's doing. I treated him the same way I treat anybody I don't have a read on: potentially useful, potentially dangerous. Nothing more.