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[Wannabehero]

This is a survey post I guess. Warning, I'm going to nerd out a little.

I personally run a modded version of the various in-game minerals to alter mineral names to be more recognizable, to help a bit with in-game descriptions of items and improve consistency.  This coming from a guy who is an amateur geology and mineralogy nerd and is familiar with most of the mineral names inherent in DF (admittedly, some of the more obscure gems require looking up).

How do you feel about a simple mod that changes mineral names to use more archaic forms rather than the current greek-root scientific naming convention?  Many of the minerals in DF have older "field" names used by miners and scholars, or a conversion from the greek-root to english is fairly straightforward.  Also, some of these converted or older names are, well, pretty bad-ass.

I'll give some examples:

Alunite ---> Alumstone

• This mineral was a primary source of Alum in antiquity (Alum was used in alchemy, dyeing, and tanning).  It was commonly known as Alunite, Alumite, Alumen, and Alumstone (among other names).

Morion ---> Black Quartz

• Morion is the commercial name for gemstone smokey quartz that is so dark it appears black.

Schorl ---> Black Tourmaline

• Schorl is a variety of the gemstone mineral tourmaline that is opaque black with an almost metallic surface luster.

Phyllite ---> Leaf Slate

• The name phyllite is derived from the greek root of phyll- from "phyllon", meaning 'leaf', and -ite from "lithites", meaning 'stone'. Phyllite is intermediately metamorphosed slate, and still resembles slate, but with a more wavy pattern and silky sheen, looking vaguely like a close up of a leaf.

Magnetite ---> Iron Lodestone

• Lodestone is the olde timey name for naturally magnetic magnetite.  Adding the Iron prefix to the name helps identify material naming when searching through lists, such as at the smelter.

Sphalerite ---> Zincblende

• An older, archaic term for zinc-rich sulfide mineral ore deposits. The -blende suffix applied to ores known to commonly have mixed metals content, with sulfide deposits commonly contained measurable amounts of copper, zinc, lead, and iron.

Galena ---> Leadglance

• Galena is already an archaic miner's name that was grandfathered into acceptance, but another common name for this mineral (lead sulfide) was leadglance.  The -glance suffix was associated with minerals with shiny, metallic luster (think fools-gold)

Tetrahedrite ---> Chalcocite ---> Copperglance

• Ok, so IRL tetrahedrite is extremely uncommon and usually only found as an accessory in other mineral deposits.  The real big-daddy of copper ore was/is chalcocite (copper sulfide) and chalcopyrite (copper/iron sulfide).  As you might guess from the name, it looks shiny and metallic when highly concentrated/pure, hence its name of copper-glance.

Red Pyrope ---> Red Fire-Eye Garnet

• Pyropes are a series mineral of the garnet group, meaning they are "garnets". In addition, the name pyrope is derived from the greek "pyropos", meaning 'fire-eyed'. And that is a sweet name for a gemstone, IMO.

Morganite ---> Pink Beryl

• Morganite is named after J.P. Morgan, who probably doesn't exist in your generated world (though I suppose the possiblity could exist). Morganite is the name given to a variety of Pink colored Beryl gemstone (Beryl is the family of gems of emerald, aquamarine, and heliodor).

Would anyone be interested in a complete mineral naming conversion mod along this vein? The main focus of the mod is to make the appearance, texture, and use of the various minerals much more apparent based on the in-game names.

I could also optionally fix mineral frequency and occurence as well (its pretty screwy TBH in the vanilla game).

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I'd be down for this project to move forward in a more "simple men like me know what this rock is right off the bat"

I had a few modders trying to help me with a streamlined mod, trying to make extra copies of plants and creatures into more generic ones. Like how there is a metic load of gibbons, or several types of wheats that are basically the same.

[Wannabehero]

Thanks for the feedback Hugo, I agree with liking a "streamlined" approach to many things in game. A streamlining mod is something I would love to see and possibly help out with.

I've actually done some of the plant related things already in my own RAW's.  Mainly these (along with fixing seed issues):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merge into Quinoa:

• Quinoa
• Kaniwa

Merge into Millet:

• White Millet
• Finger Millet
• Foxtail Millet
• Pearl Millet
• Fonio

Merge into Amaranth:

• Purple Amaranth
• Blood Amaranth
• Pendant Amaranth
• Elephant-head Amaranth

Merge into Wheat:

• Single-grain wheat
• Two-grain wheat
• Soft wheat
• Hard wheat
• Spelt

Merge into Yam:

• Long Yam
• Lesser Yam
• Purple Yam
• White Yam

[Eric Blank]

You can just call pyrope fire-eye garnet without the red, which is a bit redundant.

I wouldn't be a consumer of such a mod, but this could help new players a bit. You could suggest simplified ore names in the brainstorming thread for the steam version

Other simplifications could include reducing/combining the extent layer and mineral types. Chert and sandstone can be combined, just leave it as sandstone. There's not much meaningful difference between claystone, mudstone, or siltstone to the layman, they can all be considered "claystone". Nor would the layman really know or care for the differences between dacite, rhyolite and andesite, it's all "lavastone"

Alabaster, anhydrite, borax, selenite, and satinspar don't have uses beyond what gypsum already offers. You could alternatively permit only "yellow gypsum" with "pale gypsum" inclusions. No need for six different stones novice players can't tell apart.
Calcite could be renamed "clear marble."

[Wannabehero]

Thanks for your input Eric Blank, some very good points there!

There are a few different colored varieties of pyropes (ranging from black, brown, red, orange, and yellowish).  Not a big deal though.  They could all be merged into a single fire-eye garnet entry to reduce clutter, which is both good and bad I suppose (less clutter in the menus, but less variety in the game).

I disagree on merging chert with sandstone (they are very much different types of stone, chert is a basic chalcedony-primary rock, could possibly rename it to flint for new players, but that's a little disingenuous), but I am totally onboard with merging the variations of clay/mud/silt stone into one family (siltstone maybe). Same with the lava-derived extrusive stones. Rhyolite ---> pale lavastone, Andesite ---> coarse lavastone.  Remove Dacite (merged into rhyolite and Andesite). Keep Basalt unchanged.

Kaolinite would become the new claystone, indicating its use in making ceramics (porcelain).

You also hit the nail on the head with the variations of gypsum.  They are extremely redundant, describing only slightly different crystalline structures of the same mineral.  Best to just merge them into Gypsum host mineral, and use satinspar as gemstone quality gypsum. Also, anhydrite is in the vanilla game, but is not gypsum reaction class, which is totally silly, because anhydrite IS the plaster material made from gypsum!  That's definitely getting a fix, or just getting removed.

Calcite could totally be "clear marble", thats not half bad.  If I were to keep to an actual (old-world) naming convention though, it might more properly be calcspar, limespar, icespar, limeglass, or crystal limestone.

[Superdorf]

Ooh, old-world naming conventions for all DF's fiddly little geologies? That sounds wonderful it does!
I'll be keeping an eye out for this. All luck to you, sirrah.

[brolol.404]

I'd be interested in this. I've always had trouble visualizing the vanilla ores (not a geologist lol)

[Taffer]

This is exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see in Revised, if I'll be able to include it. Looks like a great idea!

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I'm going to reflect those plant compressions in my streamlined. Are there any other plants/trees/rocks etc that you've seen could be compressed to a single entity or group?

[Wannabehero]

I'm going to reflect those plant compressions in my streamlined. Are there any other plants/trees/rocks etc that you've seen could be compressed to a single entity or group?

Awesome!

As to other compressible plant entries, I do have some more.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Firstly,

• Kenaf ---> merge with Jute: Jute is not an actual plant.  Jute is the name for the variety of plants whose fibers are collectively known as jute fiber (some of these plants are named with variations of 'jute', such as white jute).  Kenaf falls under this category, and the two could be merged into Jute as the host descriptor for this plant group. You could possibly rename jute fiber and jute cloth into burlap, for flavor purposes if desired.

Also

• Ramie ---> rename to Ramie Nettle or possibly just Nettle: Ramie is fine as a standalone plant, but its fiber products could be renamed to better describe the plant cloth. Ramie's are a family type of nettle that are harvested for their fibers. Common names for their derived cloth (that don't use IRL place names) include 'nettle cloth', 'grass linen', and 'nettle linen'.  I personally real like nettle linen or nettle cloth.  If we rename the plant to "Ramie Nettle", then the nettle cloth/linen entries makes more traceable sense back to the plant. Also, it should probably have edible leaves.

Another idea:
Merge into Groundnut

• Bambara groundnut
• Peanut

Also, there are many different types of Beans, all of which are broken in the vanilla game due to not having a way to access the seeds. The list of beans (legume pulses) includes:

• Broad Bean
• Urad Bean
• Mung Bean
• Red Bean
• Cowpea (aka. black-eyed pea)
• Soybean
• Lentil
• Pea
• String Bean

These could likely be condensed by nature/type into this:

•     String Beans
•     Broad Beans
•     Beans
•     Peas
•     Lentils

This is exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see in Revised, if I'll be able to include it. Looks like a great idea!

Absolutely Taffer, as you know I love your work with revised, and if this ends up helping in anyway then go for it, and I will be happy to have contributed to your project.

[Wannabehero]

Another question for all you mineral enthusiasts out there.

What do you think about the following naming convention alternatives:

1: Just straight-up change mineral names to descriptive and functional, old-world naming.

Examples:

• Garnierite --> Nickelstone
• Malachite --> Green Copperstone
• Lignite --> Brown coal
• Dolomite --> Dolostone -or- Heavy limestone
• Tsavorite --> Green garnet
• Kunzite --> Pink prismatic crystal
• Melanite --> Black velvet garnet

2: Keep the original mineral name, with the descriptive name appended to the end (maybe in parentheticals or commas)?

Examples:

• Garnierite --> Garnierite (nickelstone)
• Malachite --> Malachite (green copperstone)
• Lignite --> Lignite (brown coal)
• Dolomite --> Dolomite (heavy limestone)
• Tsavorite --> Tsavorite (Green garnet)
• Kunzite --> Kunzite (pink prismatic crystal)
• Melanite --> Melanite (black velvet garnet)

While the second method would take up more room in text lines and lists, it makes it easier to look up certain things in the wiki if players have questions, and more experienced players will still be able to locate common minerals they've grown used to searching by name.

Comparative examples in action:

Normal: This is an exceptional rhyolite table.  It is encrusted with cut sard gems.

Alt 1: This is an exceptional pale lavastone table.  It is encrusted with cut brown chalcedony gems.

Alt 2: This is an exceptional rhyolite (pale lavastone) table.  It is encrusted with cut sard (brown opaque quartz) gems.

[Wannabehero]

Also, there are a boat-load of chalcedony-based gemstones in the vanilla RAWs.  Do you think common player's will know what chalcedony is, based on the name alone?  How much recognition does this name have with you?

It's difficult to define chalcedony by another descriptor.  It's closest analog is quartz, except chalcedony has neither the look nor feel of quartz, and the crystal structures are totally different.

If you are not familiar yourself, this is what chalcedony basically looks like (blue-green variety, from raw/roughs to cut and polished):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Granted, that image appears to have had more than a little bit of editing done to it.

Chalcedony is a silica (SiO2) mineral, just like quartz.  Unlike quartz, chalcedony does not have a large regular crystal structure.  Instead it is comprised of a multitude of random ultra-fine microscopic crystalline interlocking fibers, making it break smooth, waxy, and translucent to opaque. It can be just about any color, based on the presence of other trace elements. Its random cryptocrystalline structure and natural hardness has made it a very popular stone to carve into shapes and polish to a high glossy sheen.

Some very well known forms of chalcedony are:

• Flint/Chert
• Agates
• tiger's eye
• Onyxes

among others. What do you think?  Call these gems "chalcedony", as in "green chalcedony" or "pale blue chalcedony", or should we use a different descriptor name for these gems?  Some possible options could be:

• Waxy quartz
• translucent cloudy quartz
• Hazy glass-stone
• Wax-stone
• Vitreous quartz