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Total Members Voted: 15

[Naturegirl1999]

If we start down the path of violence, forever will  it dominate our path. This pimp is part of a criminal network of unknown size. This gang could control half the planet for all we know. If we kill this pimp, his friends are going to be looking for revenge and are going to be much more aggressive than if they were just looking for this woman.

 If we kill this guy and it gets back to us (Our kills are pretty obvious/distinct, bite marks and such) it will fall on Ali and her parents (we have been seen walking around with Ali out in public) and they are gonna get killed or turned into sex slaves or some such horrible thing. In short, if we kill this guy we will be effectively declaring war on an enemy force that we have no intelligence about.

Which is why I voted to just give credits. Getting more involved with this would be dangerous.

[Devastator]

Giving credits is still dangerous.  I would also argue that situations where one person is kindnapped and pimped out is a situation where violence is already happening.  It's not like there's just money involved.

Paying to avoid violence is also a bad path.  If we pay now, we could be paying forever.  If they find her, I'd expect they'd ask her where she got the money, and then saying that it was us.  If we don't pay her, I can't see why they wouldn't threaten violence to the patients.  I'd rather get started first if it going to come down to violence anyway... we can't protect all our friends by simply defending, as we can only be in one place at a time.

[King Zultan]

That's why I said don't get involved its the safest option.

[Devastator]

Understandable..  I think it'd be a better play than giving money, but can understand not wanting to do nothing.

That said, you can't voluntarily not be involved if someone comes to your door willing to do harm, which I'm pretty sure is going to happen.  It's not an option.. which is why I'd rather just accept that we're likely to have to fight, and do so from a position where we can do so effectively.

[King Zultan]

We'll there is a another way we can get through this with out fighting but its the shitty way, basically we find out where the pimp is and tell him where she is so he can come get her.

[Devastator]

Yeah.  Rather not do that.

..also, I think we'll have to deal with the gang in the future, anyway, or leave this tower block altogether.  I doubt we're going to stop growing, for instance, and will probably need at least our own apartment in a few more months.

[King Zultan]

Do we even have an idea of how fast we're growing?

[Devastator]

i'unno.  I doubt we'll be dog-sized for years, though.

[Egan_BW]

Dragons are better at violence than other creatures. Well, dragons are better at most things than other creatures, but violence is where the greatest difference lie. You want to fight a planet-sized mob? We'll do it. We'll win.

[1freeman]

The money is to get the woman as far away from the pimp as possible, if she moves to another state/continent the pimp probably isn't going to follow her.

If we kill the pimp, our DNA is going to be all over him, and the cops already have a sample of our DNA from the first guy we killed. If they get a new sample they will intensify their search for us in this tower where we live, and since this is the second person we will have killed they will move to a shoot first ask later mentality as far as we are concerned. Also, the pimp is not working alone, if we get her to set up an ambush at her apartment (which the pimp owns by the way) he will probably let his boss know that he is about to bring her back into the fold. When he doesn't show up the rest of the gang is gonna bust down the door and torture the woman to find out where he is. by the way, what the hell are you guys planning to do with the body if you kill him?, eat him? drop him out the window? the logistics alone make it a really bad idea.

If we kill the pimp and the woman can somehow gain possession of the apartment and also not get attacked/tortured by her pimp's boss/flunkies, now she needs a job and what was the last job she had before dancing? our job, the very good job that we now have and can learn valuable skills to help us support ourselves in the future. That is why I want her to go far away, it is better for everyone and has the lowest risk factor for helping.

[Egan_BW]

Pretty sure the "cops" don't give a shit about this tower.

[Devastator]

Yeah.  It did turn out to be a major drug operation we broke up down there, which they still haven't even found out existed.  Cops aren't likely to get involved in this.

Giving her money will absolutely help her get away.  And if she gets away, I think the pimp will look at people she knew to see if she's hiding with them, and the clinic is probably the first place he's going to look.

Secondly, it's concievable that even if we ambush him at the apartment that we still won't kill him.  Maybe she'll ask us if we can pay off the pimp to let her leave.  Maybe she can fight off the pimp without our assistance, and we just watch.

Thirdly, even if we kill the pimp it doesn't necessarily mean we'll go to being shot on sight.  We killed a robot earlier, which might not be a person.  If it's just the pimp, they might blame the missing pimp on Iseng'ila, not us.  Who is going to run after the apartment ambush.  Pimp will probably have some money on him, and then we can give her some more if necessary, to let her run.  No sense in her sticking around in her apartment after doing that.

Both eating the body and dropping it out the apartment window are possible disposal methods, despite you calling them silly joke suggestions.. we could do either of those.  We could also try and get the body to the maintenance tunnels or that garbage pit with the monster.  Or maybe these apartments have disposal chutes that go to there directly.

We don't need to fool the cops.  We just need to fool a few crooks.  If we can clean up the apartment so it looks like he didn't die there, his buddies will have a very hard time figuring out what exactly happened.  And, no offense, I don't think his higher ups will know eveywhere their sex slave lived or worked with before being their slave.  The pimp probably did.  His bosses.. probably not.  That gives us a good chance at never seeing another crook after the pimp, even if the crooks come looking for the missing pimp, as they won't know where to go.

That is why I want her to go far away, it is better for everyone and has the lowest risk factor for helping.

If we kill the pimp, I was assuming Iseng'ila would go away after doing so.  The pimp will probably have some money which will make it less costly for us.

If we just pay Iseng'ila money, she'll likely get away.  But I'd expect the pimp might look at the clinic next, and I'd really, really rather not risk the lives of Eiwhyl's patients by fighting here or having crooks threaten them.  It's less certain than the pimp coming to her apartment, but it seems extremely likely if Iseng'ila's not at her apartment, and far, far riskier to us when it happens.

[1freeman]

We don't actually know that the pimp came to this woman at this clinic, it is fully possible that they met at a restaurant or club or something. In fact we should ask her if he is likely to try and search for her here. It is possible that there is no risk to the clinic if she successfully escapes to another town. In the event that that is not the case, I highly doubt that the pimp is going to start shooting up a clinic if his "employee" runs away, but I will admit that there is a small possibility of this being the case. Even if he does come around, Eiwhyl can honestly tell him that she is not there and that she does not know where she is. as to the idea that the other pimps/flunkies don't know where her apartment is I feel the need to quote the lady herself

"Graad and his friends, they're searching because I... he- he told me I had what it takes. He told me it was a dancer job-"

Typically, when I am looking for something/someone with a group, I tell them all of the likely places that they can be found.

Also, no cops have come around because no one has tried calling them, we don't know if they know about the lab and we also don't know if they would do anything about it if they did. It seems that making these kinds of assumptions can be dangerous.

I am very surprised at the number of people that are advocating for murdering a person we have never met and who has done nothing to us, based on the word of a person that we have literally just met and Eiwhyl has clearly given up on. What I am trying to say is that we are all blindly feeling our way out of a situation that I don't thing any of us fully understand.

[Devastator]

I do think it's likely that they met somewhere else, but since Eiwhyl know exactly who Iseng'ila fell into a group with, and has said there was at least some back and forth between them after getting started.  It's also been stated that it was an escalating process, so it didn't happen overnight, giving them more time to interact.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure the pimp knows about Eiwhyl.  I can't say for certain, but it seems quite likely.

And, no, I don't think the pimp showing up here would immediately start shooting.  I do think the pimp would come by, make some threats, and ask some sharp questions, Eiwhyl will tell him off, and he'll go away.  I think he'll then show up again later, with backup, and ready to cause damage.  Unless he finds someone else to beat the info out of first.

We're talking about guys who keep sex slaves.  The odds that those people will be willing to do some violence is much more likely than not.  Maybe they won't kill Eiwhyl, but we know there are people who take protection money from homes in this area, and likely businesses too.

As for advocating murder, well, I don't think we're going to clean up this gang without doing some violence, and they cause a lot of problems for everyone around here.  They take money from Ali's family.  They keep sex slaves, and make it so that Ali can't go out without dressing up in concealing clothing and keeping everything secret.  We know there is something wrong with this place, it's not just one thing from one person.

So why shouldn't it be us who deals with it?  We're strong.  If we do so, we'll likely get a nice place to live, and be able to play with Ali, and she'll be able to go outside in safety.

There's lots of reasons for people in this situation to not call cops.  Maybe the cops don't live here and can't protect people.. they'll go away, the crooks will come back and make it worse.  Maybe the cops are themselves corrupt and demand money or other considerations that are even worse.  Maybe there simply aren't nearly enough of them to deal with these spires.. this is a big city, and they might only be present in a small fraction of the place.  Maybe the cops have a deal with the criminals.

[1freeman]

Why do we have to "clean up this gang"? We could keep working, keep our heads down and raise enough money to help Ali and her parents (and us) move into a new apartment in a less dangerous neighborhood tower where Ali can have all of those nice things that we all want for her. The risks to Ali and her parents would be much lower that way, we could continue to learn and grow strong, and maybe become a certified medical technician or something like that.

I know that we can kill this guy, but I cannot see how that can be extrapolated into wiping out an entire city's worth of crime all on our own with no backup/support. It would inevitably result in an escalation in violence, we kill 1 thug, they start using the buddy system. we take out a pair of thugs and they move in heavily armed and armored squads with itchy trigger fingers. Taking out low level criminals will do nothing to make this neighborhood tower safe, and it will increase the chance of Ali or her parents or even Eiwhyl hurt or killed or even worse.