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SMS Fleet: Explodable (Kashyyk), Turtle (Naturegirl1999)

RN Fleet: Overgrown Torpedo Boat (Madman198237), Freedom II (1freeman), Virtually Sank Already (evictedSaint)

[hector13]

If there's any space left after that, I'll make one too, otherwise I'll just skip this one.

[evictedSaint]

If you would trim off 40 resources on your ship, then we would be at the limit...if you took out one of your Ammo Magazines and its armor plating, you would trim off 30 resources and still be able to fire all of your guns.

Or, you might consider making an armored cruiser like mine.

...how dare you.

Blegh, fine, I guess I'll go with a SMALLER SHIP

Spoiler: RN Entirely Sinkable (click to show/hide)

Name: RN Entirely Sinkable (evictedSaint)
Ship Type: Armored Cruiser (12)
Hull Points: 5 + 9 - 2 = (12)

Compartments:
DC1: BridgeTower + RangeFinders (30)
DC2: Secondary + Armor (21)
DC3: Secondary + Armor (21)
DC4: Secondary + Armor (21)
DC5: Secondary + Armor (21)

UC1: Torpedoes (15)
UC2: AmmoMag (0)
UC3: AmmoMag (15)
UC4: Engine + Diesel (24)

Total: (180)

I even slotted it into the Medium category, too. 

IMHO the SMS have a much stronger bonus than the RN. 
For example, the RN bonus saves me 38 points, but caps me at 10 points lower (net 28 points ) and adds a -2 HP.
If this ship were an SMS ship, it would save me 20 points, but cap me 20 points higher (net 40 points) and add +4 HP.

So, this same ship on the SMS side would have 18 HP (+6), cost 197 (+17), and have room for 13 more points of upgrades before going over the tonnage limit for evasion (another Armor, for example).

The RN pays off if we have more players on our team since it saves more points per player, but each ship is individually weaker than the opposition by about 50% and more likely to be over the threshold for tonnage evasion.

To be fair, this is all surface-level analysis.  Maybe there's a better way for me to build my ship, or the advantages balance out in the long run.  This is just what I'm noticing when comparing the two factions.



Currently, the two teams are sitting at
SMS: 520 (+70)
RN: 348 (-102)

[Madman198237]

To be perfectly fair, it is completely accurate in all respects to say that the Germans built better ships than the Italians, at least before 1918. Save for MTBs, of course.

But yeah for game terms it should perhaps be a bit better balanced than real life.

[evictedSaint]

IMHO the biggest issue is that for Armored Cruisers the SMS have a ~50% Health Bonus over the RN.  There's not really anything on the RN side that can compete with such a massive bonus - for dreadnoughts the bonus is a bit smaller at only ~18%, but this current match will likely be very one-sided.  Even worse, the RN can't build a reasonably-sized ship without creeping over the weight limit.  Even 1freeman's very modest ship is 10 points over, and that's using every free component he can get, the team bonus (4 times), and no Armor.

[1freeman]

My ship is not 10 points over if we go by what is said in the OP rules, and not the numbers listed in the team bonus section.

Spoiler: RN Team Bonus (click to show/hide)

Team prefix: RN
-2 Hull Points penalty.
Torpedo Tubes and Secondary Batteries cost 40% less Resources.
Armoured Cruisers cost 50% less Resources.
Tonnage limits lowered by 10 Resource points (<80/80-180/>180).

Spoiler: Tonnage rules (click to show/hide)

TONNAGE:

Lighter ships and heavier ships behave differently in the water, and have different sailing (and maneuvering) speeds.

To represent this, Tonnage mechanic grants -1 to enemy Hit to ships that spent 100 or less Resources, and +1 to enemy Hit to ships that spent 191 or more Resources.
This means that ships with Resources between 101 and 190 are 'medium' ships that do not receive any modifiers.

The largest amount of Resources that can be spent on a single ship is 400 Resources.

100-10=90, so either Haspen meant to say that the light tonnage class gets lowered 20 resources or he made an error in his calculations.

Also, RN now has 96 resources left for new ships thanks to evictedSaint's saintly sacrifice of his Dreadnought.

[Haspen]

Oh dang, that is an error! The rules' spoiler is the correct one.

I will fix team bonuses now.

EDIT: And done!

[1freeman]

Thank you for the clarification.

I have just had a thought for a potential RN team strategy. If we had enough people that wanted to play and we all used the ship design in the spoiler below, we could have 37 ships/players on our team. Each ship would be very squishy but we could bury the opposing team in sheer numbers.

Spoiler: cheapest ship ever (click to show/hide)

RN Frugal  (anyone)
Armored Cruizer (12)
Hp: 3
DC1 Main Battery (Free)
DC2
DC3 Bridge Tower(free)
DC4
DC5

UC 1
UC 2 ammo mag ( Free)
UC 3 engine Room (Free)
UC 4
12 points

 The odds of having enough people actually willing to try this extreme of an example is low, but we could try a less extreme example like the ship posted below. that would allow us to have 13 ships.

Spoiler: Slightly more expensive (click to show/hide)

RN Frugal II (anyone)
Armored Cruizer (12)
Hp: 5
DC1 Main Battery (Free)
DC2 Secondary Battery (6) ( team Bonus)
DC3 Bridge Tower 
DC4
DC5

UC 1 Torpedo Tube (15)
UC 2 ammo mag ( Free)
UC 3 engine Room (Free)
UC
33 points

edit: screwed up hp calculation

[Madman198237]

Spoiler: RN Overgrown Torpedo Boat (click to show/hide)

Name: RN Overgrown Torpedo Boat
Class: Armored Cruiser (12)
Hull Points: 5 - 2 + 9 = 12

DC1: Bridge Tower (FREE)
DC2: Main Battery (FREE)
DC3: Secondary (6)
DC4: Secondary (6)
DC5: Secondary (6)

UC1: Torpedo Tubes (15)
UC2: Ammo Magazine (FREE)
UC3: Engine Room + Diesel Engine (24)
UC4: Ammo Magazine (15)

Updated it so it's now over the 80 limit, but under the 90 limit. I kind of want to go for a full-blown torpedo ram and armor this thing like crazy...

[Maxinum McDreich]

Freeman's comment on the super cheap ships is why I have a problem with the free stuff each ship gets. The game is balanced to favour many small ships. That changes if there is a number of players limit, though.

EDIT: Also, another error spotted in the rules. The team bonus changes to tonnage seems to assume that medium ship tonnage is between 100 to 200. But when looking at the tonnage section of the rules, it says between 100 and 190.

[Haspen]

Yeah, it's getting a bit too chaotic at the moment.

The new settings for the next battle are:

350 Resources and 3 Players maximum per Team.

[evictedSaint]

Spoiler: RN Will Be Sunk (click to show/hide)

Name: RN Will Be Sunk (evictedSaint)
Ship Type: Armored Cruiser (12)
Hull Points: 5 + 9 - 2 = (12)

Compartments:
DC1: BridgeTower + RangeFinders + Armor (45)
DC2: Secondary + Armor (21)
DC3: Secondary + Armor (21)
DC4: Secondary (6)
DC5: Secondary (6)

UC1: Torpedoes (15)
UC2: AmmoMag (0)
UC3: AmmoMag (15)
UC4: Engine + Diesel (24)

Total: (165)

I've downgraded the RN Entirely Sinkable to the RN Will Be Sunk, sitting pretty at 165 points.  This gives room for the other two players to build two 90 point ships, and sneak in under the Tonnage limit with 5 points left over.

[Haspen]

It doesn't have a Main gun v;

[evictedSaint]

Spoiler: RN Virtually Sunk Already (click to show/hide)

Name: RN Virtually Sunk Already (evictedSaint)
Ship Type: Armored Cruiser (12)
Hull Points: 5 + 9 - 2 = (12)

Compartments:
DC1: BridgeTower + RangeFinders + Armor (45)
DC2: Secondary (6)
DC3: Secondary (6)
DC4: Secondary (6)
DC5: MainBattery (0)

UC1: Torpedoes (15)
UC2: AmmoMag + Armor (15)
UC3: AmmoMag + Armor (30)
UC4: Engine + Diesel + Armor (39)

Total: (174)

sigh.

[1freeman]

As it stands, team RN has used 333/350 Resources

Overgrown Torpedo Boat: 84

Freedom II: 90

Virtually Sunk Already: 159

The RN V.S.A. could afford another armor plate without leaving it's weight class.

[Jilladilla]

Between the new restrictions and my own late entry, I will withdraw the SMS Blitz from this fight. Though I do think that even with this the German team is still over the total resource costs.