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Author Topic: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Spring, 1890, Production & Deployment Phase.  (Read 22039 times)

Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #180 on: October 04, 2019, 06:14:23 pm »

Well, fire control is important, partially as its in every ship design of mine... The general plan would be do these, when finished do a project and a revision(the project hopefully being the RF&FC Mk2, with the mechanical computing, the revision probably buffing our marines from single-shot blackpowder rifles and blackpowder revolvers), and then do two ship designs, probably that 7kt we all want and some sorta support ship, based off of what we can see the enemy getting up to.


Quote from: Production Block
Ships (4 Dice Each)

Projects (3 Dice Each)
GLCS Mk1 Gunlaying System | (1) | AseaHeru
RF&FC Mk1 Gun Fire Control System | (1) | AseaHeru

Revisions/Purchases (1 Die Each)



Code: (Number Vote) [Select]
One Ship, Two Revisions/Purchases      | (0) |
One Ship, One Revisions/Purchases      | (0) |
One Ship, No Revisions/Purchases       | (0) |
Two Projects                           | (1) | AseaHeru
One Project, Three Revisions/Purchases | (0) |
One Project, Two Revisions/Purchases   | (0) |
One Project, One Revisions/Purchases   | (0) |
One Project, No Revisions/Purchases    | (0) |
Six Revisions/Purchases                | (0) |
Five Revisions/Purchases               | (0) |
Four Revisions/Purchases               | (0) |
Three Revisions/Purchases              | (0) |
Two Revisions/Purchases                | (0) |
One Revisions/Purchases                | (0) |
No Actions This Turn                   | (0) |
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 07:44:58 pm by Aseaheru »
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Madman198237

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #181 on: October 04, 2019, 10:50:25 pm »

Soooo, alternative plans. I don't think that what is proposed is worthy of two designs. I would prefer a central Director-firing system which relays the information from the mast-top rangefinder to the fire-control center (somewhere within the armored citadel), and then relays the turret pointing and gun elevations to the turrets. This would be one design, possibly also including a long-base rangefinder for the masttop, though I wouldn't even bother specifying the rangefinder, that's something that should be decided on a per-gun basis (longer ranged guns need longer-base rangefinders). In fact, here we go:

Quote
Main Battery Central Director Firing System (CDFS) Mark 1
Fire control is presently a rather haphazard affair. Each turret is generally responsible for its own rangefinding and gunlaying. Well, no more. Advancements in technology have allowed us to provide a much more advanced, much more accurate solution to target acquisition.

First up, we've developed and deployed a long-base stereoscopic rangefinder of about 9ft length, to provide our gunners with accurate rangefinding out past the effective ranges of their weapons.

The system proper starts with the long-base rangefinder mounted on the mast, something we've already started putting in ships. Placed high above the smoke and spray of battle, this rangefinder is capable of getting a clearer image of a target at a longer range than a turret-top rangefinder. The spotter team using this rangefinder wire their observations down to the fire control center, down in the citadel of the vessel. The main battery turrets' rangefinders also send ranges to the fire control center if they can see the target. In the fire control center, the slide rules, protractors, and mathematics (or tables, anyway) go to work, and the fire control team calculates bearings and elevations for all main battery turrets, sending them via wire to the turrets, which can then be laid on target by the crews and ordered to fire from the fire control center.

While this does require quite a bit of wiring, the system is not very complicated, mostly just moving the principal work in finding an aiming point for the turrets to an armored position that gets its information from every rangefinder on the ship.

For another proposal...our torpedoes are...lackluster. And by lackluster, I mean ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. I don't feel like writing one right now but a torpedo upgrade could be EXTREMELY valuable.

We could also try for some fun with propellants and explosives to make our shells absurdly capable.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 07:43:32 pm by Madman198237 »
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TricMagic

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #182 on: October 05, 2019, 04:30:14 am »

How many Dice do we have?
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Jilladilla

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #183 on: October 05, 2019, 05:11:12 am »

How many Dice do we have?

Same as before, 6. Remember that we won't get the tech right away from now on; pregame turns are over, we're fully on the project system now. Anticipate not getting things done when we want them to.

Anyhow; I could see going for 1 design, saving the rest of the dice for potentially fixing the design or progressing it next turn. Or just go for 2 designs and next turn when we see how their fleet is composed start that CA design and throw the remaining 2 dice at one of the projects.
Remember that we cannot rush ship designs, nor can we throw dice at them to make them go faster; they complete at their own pace. And then we have to build it. Would rather not delay this longer than next turn. Remember that 'Perfect' is the enemy of 'Good Enough'. We can likely revise in the improvements we make while it's on the construction slip anyhow.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #184 on: October 05, 2019, 09:39:32 am »

 Madman, thats... basically RF&FC, except the center isint with the rangefinders.
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Madman198237

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #185 on: October 12, 2019, 10:36:38 pm »

So I'm thinking a rangefinders + director firing design...and something?

Quote from: Have a laugh
Projectile Launcher Unrotated Non-Kinetic
Firing rockets at enemy warships is amusing, but generally considered too inaccurate for antishipping work. However, it's possible to deploy large rockets from a launcher system that fires a solid dozen set to impact the water and explode over a range of distances, effectively creating a zone in which enemy torpedo boats or even larger warships would be at great risk of taking one or more hits, direct or nearby, causing substantial damage.

Since the "launcher" is basically sets of parallel rails the rockets can slide down, various sizes and payloads can be used. Elevating a set of rails further allows the use of a parachute-retarded white phosphorus illumination flare rocket which reaches impressive heights before igniting on timer, for instance.

Effective range on the standard munitions is intended to be more than the range on our torpedoes without making the rockets too unwieldy to be reloaded by one or two people, such that this device can pose an extreme threat to torpedo boat attacks----sometimes, the mere knowledge that a hail of rockets might come falling out of the sky and exploding the ocean around you can be a more effective deterrent to MTB attacks than any defense. Also, if enemy warships get close, they will also have to contend with the possibility of getting engulfed in exploding projectiles.

Based on the "Unrotated Projectile Launcher" to some degree and also a depth charge launcher, here's a thing that could be converted into a depth charge launcher if the enemy went for submarines, might do some real damage to torpedo boat attacks, and is just generally hilarious and probably effective, too.


Quote
Mark Two "Eyeball" Fire Control Computation Machine
Based on the efforts of France and other navies in mechanical calculators, we are going to begin producing a device capable of accepting the various inputs necessary for the finding of an aim point for the guns, and outputting the correct aiming point for the guns to be aimed.

This device is, internally, a mechanical calculator, preloaded with just a handful of formulas which normally must be solved by hand in order to aim the guns. It can be easily set for use with different caliber guns in different positions along the ship. A single calculator or set of such devices can be placed in the fire control center of our warships in order to speed up and increase the accuracy of our calculations---the faster such calculations are done, the more accurate the solution is when it's fed to the gun crews.

This setup is an augmentation to the CDFS that relies on that project's wiring to communicate this information to the turret crews and casemate gun positions that may be tied into the computer. Again, the computer does not physically move the guns, just tells the crews where to point them.

Quote
Main Battery Central Director Firing System (CDFS) Mark 1
Fire control is presently a rather haphazard affair. Each turret is generally responsible for its own rangefinding and gunlaying. Well, no more. Advancements in technology have allowed us to provide a much more advanced, much more accurate solution to target acquisition.

First up, we've developed and deployed a long-base stereoscopic rangefinder of about 9ft length, to provide our gunners with accurate rangefinding out past the effective ranges of their weapons. This along with other basic implements of naval gunnery/knowing where you are and what you're doing and finding out where the enemy is and what he's doing obviously should already be used by our not-incompetent navy but we've mentioned them just to be sure.

The system proper starts with the long-base rangefinder mounted on the mast, something we've already started putting in ships. Placed high above the smoke and spray of battle, this rangefinder is capable of getting a clearer image of a target at a longer range than a turret-top rangefinder. The spotter team using this rangefinder wire their observations down to the fire control center, down in the citadel of the vessel. The main battery turrets' rangefinders also send ranges to the fire control center if they can see the target. In the fire control center, the slide rules, protractors, and mathematics (or tables, anyway) go to work, and the fire control team calculates bearings and elevations for all main battery turrets, sending them via wire to the turrets, which can then be laid on target by the crews and ordered to fire from the fire control center.

While this does require quite a bit of wiring, the system is not very complicated, mostly just moving the principal work in finding an aiming point for the turrets to an armored position that gets its information from every rangefinder on the ship.

Alrighty, together this should give us the best fire control in existence, except maybe for France's, funnily enough, who are presently leading the way in the development of mechanical fire control calculators.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 07:19:36 pm by Madman198237 »
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Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #186 on: October 15, 2019, 08:27:09 pm »

 ...after taking it up from the Russians, and while never really going fer remote firing because the French.

 Eyeball and CDFS work fer me. We do need to remember to revise our guns to use 1870's era tech if we dont have it existent already, namely inclinometer-based electromagnetic locks for the guns, so they cannot fire unless the gun is at the right angle, which is what I had been calling .a Gyroscopic angle-based system because info on this is harder to find than hens teeth, honest politicians, or caring Southwegians.


 Anyways, lets get this show back on the road. Or back at sea?
 

Quote from: Production Block
Ships (4 Dice Each)

Projects (3 Dice Each)
PLUNK | 0 |
"Mk2 Eyeball" FCCM | 1 | AseaHeru
Main Battery CDFS Mk1 | 1 | AseaHeru

Revisions/Purchases (1 Die Each)



Code: (Number Vote) [Select]
One Ship, Two Revisions/Purchases      | (0) |
One Ship, One Revisions/Purchases      | (0) |
One Ship, No Revisions/Purchases       | (0) |
Two Projects                           | (1) | AseaHeru
One Project, Three Revisions/Purchases | (0) |
One Project, Two Revisions/Purchases   | (0) |
One Project, One Revisions/Purchases   | (0) |
One Project, No Revisions/Purchases    | (0) |
Six Revisions/Purchases                | (0) |
Five Revisions/Purchases               | (0) |
Four Revisions/Purchases               | (0) |
Three Revisions/Purchases              | (0) |
Two Revisions/Purchases                | (0) |
One Revisions/Purchases                | (0) |
No Actions This Turn                   | (0) |
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Madman198237

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #187 on: October 15, 2019, 08:54:41 pm »

Quote from: Votebox
Ships (4 Dice Each)

Projects (3 Dice Each)
PLUNK | 0 |
"Mk2 Eyeball" FCCM | 2 | AseaHeru, Madman
Main Battery CDFS Mk1 | 2 | AseaHeru, Madman



Code: (We Have Five Dice) [Select]
One Ship                               | (0) |
Two Projects                           | (2) | AseaHeru, Madman
One Project                            | (0) |
No Actions This Turn                   | (0) |

Cleaned up the votebox of extraneous non-design-phase-related junk. Remember that we do in fact have a revision phase following that.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 09:16:09 pm by Madman198237 »
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Jilladilla

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #188 on: October 18, 2019, 04:18:04 pm »

Still not entirely sure on 2 Projects, but in the sake of moving things forwards... (Yes, the lack of vote on how many projects is intentional.)

Quote from: Votebox
Ships (4 Dice Each)

Projects (3 Dice Each)
PLUNK | 0 |
"Mk2 Eyeball" FCCM | (3) | AseaHeru, Madman, Jilladilla
Main Battery CDFS Mk1 | (3) | AseaHeru, Madman, Jilladilla



Code: (We Have Five Dice) [Select]
One Ship                               | (0) |
Two Projects                           | (2) | AseaHeru, Madman
One Project                            | (0) |
No Actions This Turn                   | (0) |


Madman, if I may; perhaps emphasize in the CDFS design that it is the gun/turret crews that do the actual gun/turret aiming, they just get told where by the guys in firecontrol? As right now, you use a non-specific 'crew'; yes, the implication is there, but the guys in Fire Control could also be referred to by said term. Very minor nitpick, I do like the designs.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #189 on: October 18, 2019, 04:33:47 pm »

Just noticed that we are listed as only having five dice for some reason. Cant find a reason for why we are missing one, so guessing its a typo.
Quote from: Votebox
Ships (4 Dice Each)

Projects (3 Dice Each)
PLUNK | 0 |
"Mk2 Eyeball" FCCM | (3) | AseaHeru, Madman, Jilladilla
Main Battery CDFS Mk1 | (3) | AseaHeru, Madman, Jilladilla



Code: (We Have Six Dice) [Select]
One Ship                               | (0) |
Two Projects                           | (2) | AseaHeru, Madman
One Project                            | (0) |
No Actions This Turn                   | (0) |
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piratejoe

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2019, 10:25:03 pm »

Autumn, 1890, Design Phase.
Quote
Mark Two "Eyeball" Fire Control Computation Machine
Based on the efforts of France and other navies in mechanical calculators, we are going to begin producing a device capable of accepting the various inputs necessary for the finding of an aim point for the guns, and outputting the correct aiming point for the guns to be aimed.

This device is, internally, a mechanical calculator, preloaded with just a handful of formulas which normally must be solved by hand in order to aim the guns. It can be easily set for use with different caliber guns in different positions along the ship. A single calculator or set of such devices can be placed in the fire control center of our warships in order to speed up and increase the accuracy of our calculations---the faster such calculations are done, the more accurate the solution is when it's fed to the gun crews.

This setup is an augmentation to the CDFS that relies on that project's wiring to communicate this information to the turret crews and casemate gun positions that may be tied into the computer. Again, the computer does not physically move the guns, just tells the crews where to point them.
Time: 4 | Progress: 5 | Expense: 6

Innitial work on the Mark two "Eyeball" as we are calling it, has gone at a decent pace. Its expected to be cheep and not too expensive relatively speaking due to a few deals and the fact that we can utilize the prototypes easily, and they can be easily maintained and fixed during testing. Additionally, our work is ahead of scheduled and our understanding so far is that this likely will not take too long for us to nail down and finalize the design and make it available for mass production for all of our ships future ships.

Mark Two "Eyeball" Fire Control Computation Machine | 5/8 progress | 2 PP per die | Rushed 0 times | 2 PP invested

Effectiveness: 1 | Cost: 6 | Bugs: 1

Unfortunately, while we are making quick work at finalizing things and preparing it to be produced en mass and past the bare bones prototype stage, the project has been riddled with errors and so far our efforts to fix them seem to be rather poor. Lets start with the positive however, the calculator of the mark 2 "Eyeball" is cheep. We can safely say that its impact on our budget when being installed on a ship is minimal to the point that unless we made a normal ship and strapped on an obsessive, absurd, incompetent and absolutely ludicrous amount of these things to stick on a ship, more than it would ever need, its impact on the cost would be practically unnoticeable at best, and negligible at worst. However, that is the good news, and the only good news...

The calculator its self has major issues in spite of, or possibly because of its cost. It barely works, takes ages to actually get proper solutions, and half the time the solutions it gives are broken by it receiving new information, it simply ceasing to function, or even just the machine just screwing up somewhere, among many, many, other more minor issues that will not be listed here. This is made even worse by the fact that the machine is so fragile that practically so much as a stiff breeze will take it out. Not literally, but accidentally kicking it, vibrations from going at high speeds, and even firing the guns can take the thing out of action, in fact one of the testers accidentally broke the casing when they slapped the thing in frustration and managed to get their finger caught in the mechanisms while operating it. Fixing it is not too simple either, especially because its mechanisms don't like being touched, but at least its doable, though in its current state, it might be better to do the calculations by hand.

Despite this, we have learned a lot of lessons from this. Painful, painful lessons that we wish we didn't have to deal with and ones that are honestly embarrassing, but still lessons. They say you learn more from your failings than your successes. But at least we will be able to apply some fix before the final version. These are prototypes for a reason after all. Even if appallingly and insultingly bad ones at that. In fact, we'd not be surprised if there was foul play involved...After all, its hard to think we were this bad.

Quote
Main Battery Central Director Firing System (CDFS) Mark 1
Fire control is presently a rather haphazard affair. Each turret is generally responsible for its own rangefinding and gunlaying. Well, no more. Advancements in technology have allowed us to provide a much more advanced, much more accurate solution to target acquisition.

First up, we've developed and deployed a long-base stereoscopic rangefinder of about 9ft length, to provide our gunners with accurate rangefinding out past the effective ranges of their weapons. This along with other basic implements of naval gunnery/knowing where you are and what you're doing and finding out where the enemy is and what he's doing obviously should already be used by our not-incompetent navy but we've mentioned them just to be sure.

The system proper starts with the long-base rangefinder mounted on the mast, something we've already started putting in ships. Placed high above the smoke and spray of battle, this rangefinder is capable of getting a clearer image of a target at a longer range than a turret-top rangefinder. The spotter team using this rangefinder wire their observations down to the fire control center, down in the citadel of the vessel. The main battery turrets' rangefinders also send ranges to the fire control center if they can see the target. In the fire control center, the slide rules, protractors, and mathematics (or tables, anyway) go to work, and the fire control team calculates bearings and elevations for all main battery turrets, sending them via wire to the turrets, which can then be laid on target by the crews and ordered to fire from the fire control center.

While this does require quite a bit of wiring, the system is not very complicated, mostly just moving the principal work in finding an aiming point for the turrets to an armored position that gets its information from every rangefinder on the ship.
Time: 5 | Progress: 5 | Expense: 3

This project is expected to take no time at all really. In fact, we are almost done already, we just need another week or two. Half the stuff needed is already made, and the only things we really need to do is make a longer rangefinder, do some wiring, and have raw information flow from the top of the ships masts to a control room and then the refined solutions brought to the main guns. Most of this stuff could likely be done on a new ship even, but the practice all but ensures it could be done with ease.

Main Battery Central Director Firing System | 5/6 progress | 2 PP per die | Rushed 0 times | 2 PP invested

Effectiveness: 5 | Cost: 6 | Bugs: 6

The Main Battery Central Director Firing System works like a charm from what we can tell. It has people in the fire control center telling the gunners where to shoot, gets told where those shots landed and what speed and heading the enemy ship is going, and makes adjustments from there before giving the new information to the gunners. In fact, the only issue we have had with it is the implementation of the Mark 2, which just makes things more difficult for the fire control teams. and gunners, muddying the actual data and solutions and generally making life just a bit harder for us. Still, removing that, or even including it, its currently much more effective than simply letting the gunners figure out what they are doing independently from each other.

It should be noted, that there was some fear that the wiring might cause some issues or could easily become disrupted. We have found with the way we have done things that the wiring won't cause any issues, and made backups in the event a shell happens to hit the ship and take out one of the wires to communicate between the turrets, fire control center, or spotters. Of course, it might take a bit to notice, however, it won't take too long for a well trained crew who know how to utilize our new fire control to figure out that the line is cut, and it likely won't be too hard to fix either.



It is now the Production and Deployment phase. You have 15 PP remaining should you pay for all maintenance and construction costs.

Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Technology (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ship Classes (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Taskforces (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 07:42:11 am by piratejoe »
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Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Production & Deployment Phase.
« Reply #191 on: October 23, 2019, 10:38:47 pm »

 So, with 15... We could upgrade all our CDSes to the new fire control, guns, and turbines right now... We could build three spears and upgrade one ship, we could do a new CDS and upgrade something...

 Upgrading under construction is simply the extra cost fer a turn... we got four ships under construction, so we could do that, build two new spears, and upgrade an existing hull... Im currently leaning twards upgrading our two-pack of CDSes, our new-build, and then applying the remaining 8pp twards two new Spears. Thoughts?
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Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Production & Deployment Phase.
« Reply #192 on: October 27, 2019, 11:11:09 am »

 Well, since noone has any thoughts, upgrade two-pack, new-build CDS, and two new Spears is a go.

Quote from: long-range 9" with insane Spears
>Begin refit of CDF 2.1
>Upgrade Gjúki in-dock
>Construct two new Spears
 >Xyston
 >Sarissa
Quote from: War Plan Puce
CDF 2.1 refitting
CDF 2.2 assigned to CDF 1.1, is thus redesignated as CDF 1.3.
CDF 1.1 assigned to coastal guard, sorteing based on reports of enemy movements from coast watchers.
FCF 1 assigned to scout SE, avoiding combat against superior forces while raiding enemy commerce.
FCF 2 assigned to scout SW, avoiding combat against superior forces while raiding enemy commerce.
FCF 3 Assigned to N
FCF 4 assigned to scout S, , avoiding combat against superior forces while raiding enemy commerce.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Production & Deployment Phase.
« Reply #193 on: October 27, 2019, 02:54:11 pm »

An alternative plan: In the center we have a contested island; this island is also very narrow. Lending the CDF's fire support against the land forces of the Tyrant there could be helpful to gain ground, as we already have boots on the ground there. The plan is otherwise identical, other than specifying FCF 3 to commerce protection, which I assume was the idea.

Quote from: War Plan Crater
CDF 2.1 refitting
CDF 2.2 assigned to CDF 1.1, is thus redesignated as CDF 1.3.
CDF 1.1 assigned to coastal bombardment in support of ground forces, sortieing along the coastline of the center island (the one with Gyrnwrack and Erlandthorpe)
FCF 1 assigned to scout SE, avoiding combat against superior forces while raiding enemy commerce.
FCF 2 assigned to scout SW, avoiding combat against superior forces while raiding enemy commerce.
FCF 3 Assigned to N, assigned to raider hunting
FCF 4 assigned to scout S, , avoiding combat against superior forces while raiding enemy commerce.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 08:03:07 pm by Jilladilla »
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Aseaheru

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Re: Refit and Repair, Nemorland, Autumn, 1890, Production & Deployment Phase.
« Reply #194 on: October 27, 2019, 02:59:27 pm »

 We might just want to assign FCF 3 to convoy duties in theoretically any zone if we are doing that.
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