Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Pillbo]

Just as in world generation, the villains no longer need to hire assassins and other agents themselves. In the case where a villain or a handler is duty-bound and important, where a journey that might take several days would seem inappropriate, I've allowed them to send messages more abstractly, over the same period of time. These will still form the basis of evidence etc. during the investigation period.

Maybe this could be accomplished with pigeons or another vermin/animal messenger, which seems possible if these were for powerful people. Homing pigeons have been in use for 3000 years.

It would be cool to see a dwarf running up to the surface to have a meeting with a pigeon that you can't explain, or to find cryptic messages on a dead bird meant for someone else.

[GoblinCookie]

I can see there being a [SENDS_MESSAGES] tag in creature raws.  The creature would take a random tame creature from it's site with this token and they would send the message according to whatever is their preferred means of locomotion.  I don't think the game presently models flying very well though.

[voliol]

I can see there being a [SENDS_MESSAGES] tag in creature raws.  The creature would take a random tame creature from it's site with this token and they would send the message according to whatever is their preferred means of locomotion.  I don't think the game presently models flying very well though.

+1 to the token.

I’m all for messenger pidgeons (and other animals), but I believe they should probably wait until letters are a thing (which could be just in some weeks). After all, what’s the fun in having them if you can’t pick up the message and read it yourself after intercepting the messenger animal?

Also, there should be several other threads on messenger pidgeons here on the suggestions forum, that probably wouldn’t hurt getting necroed for this, if it needs further discussion.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I can see there being a [SENDS_MESSAGES] tag in creature raws.  The creature would take a random tame creature from it's site with this token and they would send the message according to whatever is their preferred means of locomotion.  I don't think the game presently models flying very well though.

+1 to the token.

I’m all for messenger pidgeons (and other animals), but I believe they should probably wait until letters are a thing (which could be just in some weeks). After all, what’s the fun in having them if you can’t pick up the message and read it yourself after intercepting the messenger animal?

Also, there should be several other threads on messenger pidgeons here on the suggestions forum, that probably wouldn’t hurt getting necroed for this, if it needs further discussion.

Letters are a thing. They're the main chunk of evidence for locating villains. And yes, lots of other suggestions on this.

[Bumber]

I can see there being a [SENDS_MESSAGES] tag in creature raws.

[CARRIES_MESSAGES] would be more clear.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I can see there being a [SENDS_MESSAGES] tag in creature raws.

[CARRIES_MESSAGES] would be more clear.

And a new job for the animal trainer too  Train as Messenger.

[GoblinCookie]

I can see there being a [SENDS_MESSAGES] tag in creature raws.

[CARRIES_MESSAGES] would be more clear.

Not that it matters.

[GoblinCookie]

+1 to the token.

I’m all for messenger pidgeons (and other animals), but I believe they should probably wait until letters are a thing (which could be just in some weeks). After all, what’s the fun in having them if you can’t pick up the message and read it yourself after intercepting the messenger animal?

Also, there should be several other threads on messenger pidgeons here on the suggestions forum, that probably wouldn’t hurt getting necroed for this, if it needs further discussion.

The main issue here is the game does not really understand flying outside of the loaded area.  If it is a dog or something carrying the message it would work fine, but a bird well we have to understand how high up the bird is as well.

[Shonai_Dweller]

+1 to the token.

I’m all for messenger pidgeons (and other animals), but I believe they should probably wait until letters are a thing (which could be just in some weeks). After all, what’s the fun in having them if you can’t pick up the message and read it yourself after intercepting the messenger animal?

Also, there should be several other threads on messenger pidgeons here on the suggestions forum, that probably wouldn’t hurt getting necroed for this, if it needs further discussion.

The main issue here is the game does not really understand flying outside of the loaded area.  If it is a dog or something carrying the message it would work fine, but a bird well we have to understand how high up the bird is as well.

The game right now.
As opposed to a future version of the the game which featured messenger pigeons. Which would need to include fixes in order to allow messenger pigeons to work. As opposed to not. Kind of pointless to add a feature which just doesn't work at all, don't you think?

[Strik3r]

+1 to the token.

I’m all for messenger pidgeons (and other animals), but I believe they should probably wait until letters are a thing (which could be just in some weeks). After all, what’s the fun in having them if you can’t pick up the message and read it yourself after intercepting the messenger animal?

Also, there should be several other threads on messenger pidgeons here on the suggestions forum, that probably wouldn’t hurt getting necroed for this, if it needs further discussion.

The main issue here is the game does not really understand flying outside of the loaded area.  If it is a dog or something carrying the message it would work fine, but a bird well we have to understand how high up the bird is as well.

Which is rather unfortunate. It would be nice if flying creatures (and adventurers) could travel on the world map by flying. However, world map flight would open its own can of worms, mostly related to mixed squads(what do you do when half of your guys can fly (or have a flying mount) and the other half can't?). What isn't a problem however, is altitude information: It's much easier (and computationally cheaper) to disregard all worldmap obstacles and if needed, simply put the creature some z-levels above all solid tiles in the loaded area, if it enters the loaded area.

But I can't really support messenger pigeons because realistically the chance of an adventurer encountering one during play is way too low and "intercepting" it is firmly in the "not gonna happen" category.

[Pillbo]

Just as in world generation, the villains no longer need to hire assassins and other agents themselves. In the case where a villain or a handler is duty-bound and important, where a journey that might take several days would seem inappropriate, I've allowed them to send messages more abstractly, over the same period of time. These will still form the basis of evidence etc. during the investigation period.

I'm interpreting 'abstractly' to mean that over a certain period of time Person B just knows what Person A want's to tell them. If that is the case I'd prefer there at least be a partial mechanic to explain how that works and I think sending a bird fits that well enough.  I don't really care if flying on the world map doesn't work right now because the birds can just leave whatever local map and show up at whatever other local map after some amount of time. The same thing would be accomplished, just in a slightly more interesting way. 

You can always just use weighted die rolls on the bird's path to see the bird gets killed, injured, lost, or intercepted along the way, if not the bird arrives successfully. Like traders, migrants, armies, or anything else that started off not actually moving on the world map, it can be made more realistic and fleshed out as more features are added.

But I can't really support messenger pigeons because realistically the chance of an adventurer encountering one during play is way too low and "intercepting" it is firmly in the "not gonna happen" category.

It seems more likely than intercepting an abstract message.

[GoblinCookie]

Which is rather unfortunate. It would be nice if flying creatures (and adventurers) could travel on the world map by flying. However, world map flight would open its own can of worms, mostly related to mixed squads(what do you do when half of your guys can fly (or have a flying mount) and the other half can't?). What isn't a problem however, is altitude information: It's much easier (and computationally cheaper) to disregard all worldmap obstacles and if needed, simply put the creature some z-levels above all solid tiles in the loaded area, if it enters the loaded area.

But I can't really support messenger pigeons because realistically the chance of an adventurer encountering one during play is way too low and "intercepting" it is firmly in the "not gonna happen" category.

The same is true of regular messengers.  Plenty of stuff we are unlikely to run into happens in the game, but it makes it more interesting when we do run into it. 

Currently altitude information is absent.  How it works is that you have a location and a level, so between the surface and hell, designated by a number between 0 (surface) and 5 (hell).  You are always assumed to be traveling on a flat plane.  That plane is then generated when the world is onloaded, along with everything else, so none of the levels between the caverns and none of the air above the ground actually exist when we are not there.  This means that birds always spawn on the ground and then take flight, they never start off as in flight.  Even if we were to change this so the birds are teleported into the air when we arrive, there is the problem that when they are offloaded the birds will be back onto the ground again even when they are supposed to be carrying messages. 

In effect you can presumably just add another value along with the caverns, meaning 'in the air'.  In play we would load both zones but the zones would be treated separately in world-gen, the same situation that presently exists with the caverns.  In world-gen the caverns are treated separately but in play the caverns are all loaded at the same time and the space in the middle is created outright.  We can put all birds at a certain altitude above the ground and then create the levels of air below/above them; presently ALL levels of air are created. 

[Bumber]

Or you could just check if the creature can fly in world gen calculations and when loading them.

[Strik3r]

I dont feel like getting into a argument over pigeons, of all things.
So, my final opinion on this matter is this:

Such a feature will only be at most an effect that'll cause a player to go "Oh, that's neat".(if they even notice the bird). The player might be able to figure out who's sending or recieving messages if they happen to be at the right place at the right time. I mean that's cool and all but i feel it might not be enough for a feature that may not be easy to code.

Or you could just check if the creature can fly in world gen calculations and when loading them.

That's exactly what i'm talking about here

It's much easier (and computationally cheaper) to disregard all worldmap obstacles and if needed, simply put the creature some z-levels above all solid tiles in the loaded area, if it enters the loaded area.

You check whether a creature can fly, if yes: don't consider overworld map obstacles(mountains, seas) and just path over everything, if ever encountered, whether by a fort or an adventurer: Enter the map somewhere it makes sense for a bird, I.E. so high up in the sky that no one ever has even the faintest chance of hitting it with anything or even noticing that its there.

[GoblinCookie]

Or you could just check if the creature can fly in world gen calculations and when loading them.

Where are they flying?  The sky does not exist when the game is not loaded, the world-gen map is actually a 2D grid map rather similar to what a dungeon-master would use.  Everything else is created during the loading process of the game.

The game places creatures on a plane in the caverns, or on a plane on the earth based upon a value they are carrying as to what level they are.  It moves everything about a flat world, it just places them below you potentially when the game is loaded.  The cavern creatures are really next to you in world-gen, but then are placed below you when the game is loaded. 

We need to define what height the creature flies at and program the AI so the creature will by default try to fly at that height.  Otherwise we have a situation where the bird leaves the onloaded map at one level and then is flying at a different level as soon as we chase it down.  Having a target height will help to make this situation consistent, the bird tries to fly at a given height and is placed at that height when is onloaded. 

I dont feel like getting into a argument over pigeons, of all things.
So, my final opinion on this matter is this:

Such a feature will only be at most an effect that'll cause a player to go "Oh, that's neat".(if they even notice the bird). The player might be able to figure out who's sending or recieving messages if they happen to be at the right place at the right time. I mean that's cool and all but i feel it might not be enough for a feature that may not be easy to code.

You check whether a creature can fly, if yes: don't consider overworld map obstacles(mountains, seas) and just path over everything, if ever encountered, whether by a fort or an adventurer: Enter the map somewhere it makes sense for a bird, I.E. so high up in the sky that no one ever has even the faintest chance of hitting it with anything or even noticing that its there.

"Oh that's neat" is what the game is made of.