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[Happerry]

I personally do not consider classes 'non-essential'. If we're going down the drone and turret and HWP path especially, I do not consider an engineer type class low priority, and so far that's the path the vote is leading us down.

Also AseaHeru we have two revisions, so you should/can do (at least) two votes instead of one.

[Chiefwaffles]

With something like engineer? Yes. Completely inessential. Good for a revision, yet it’d be a huge waste of a design. When we have the medikit, tactical AR HUD visor, aircraft, armor, and weaponry all to design in the near future.

Then you have the surface to air missile revision which just seems unneeded. It’ll just draw us into another tedious and unnecessary missile counter war with the aliens constantly requiring designs and revisions to make the missiles not completely useless after the aliens inevitably revise countermeasures.

[Aseaheru]

Also AseaHeru we have two revisions, so you should/can do (at least) two votes instead of one.

Do we? I missed that, thank you.

"Sky Eye" Recon Drone (3): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Happerry
The Killing Sky (0):
Lethal Entry Axioms of Doom Entering Reality (0):
XCOM Requests for Deployment of Surface to Air Missile Assets (3): Madman, Happerry, AseaHeru
Sleeper Cells (0):
StimPack (0):
Project "Requires Larger Gun" (1):AseaHeru
Training: Engineer (1): Chiefwaffles

[Madman198237]

The Engineer class would be a huge waste of design time---we don't need them to be a superhuman capable of operating an entire squad's worth of drones and turrets, just a skilled guy capable of operating a couple.

So, for another revision...I could see writing up a fancy advanced rifle based on, like, the XM29 or something silly like that. We could probably manage to modify that to usability with a revision---we're fighting aliens, after all.

I'm not super attached to the SAM revision---it seems like it might not really have such an effect.

[Happerry]

I'm not super attached to the SAM revision either, I just didn't see anything I liked more that I wanted to do as a revision. And honestly I still think an Engineer design would not be a waste of design time if we're going down the SHIV path. Actually, let me just ask. What kind of class do you see as worth spending a design on? Because making a class is basically our equivalent of the aliens making a new type of alien.

[Chiefwaffles]

Something that is more than “uses existing designs better”

[Madman198237]

XAMWS Advanced Multirole Weapon System
Based on the XM29 system which incorporated a 20mm grenade launcher and 5.56mm rifle into a single weapon and the XM25 25mm grenade launcher and XM8 rifle which were based on the two different systems and meant to solve various problems separately before being reintegrated into a single whole, the XAMWS is a purely XCOM project to produce a version of the XM29 with the XM25's grenade launcher and the XM8's improvements to the weapon's rifle portion, and solves the weight problem by using printed titanium for weapon parts, advanced lightweight composites everywhere. Weight and bulk are further reduced as problems by our use of transport direct to the combat area and focus on very short but high lethality engagements.

All of these weapons are obviously easily available to us since we're, y'know, saving the world and stuffs and the XM8 and XM25 have already been deployed in various militaries. Thus, all that's left for us is to take the increased costs of lighter-weight composites and, most of all, titanium manufacturing, which are obviously not really options for normal militaries that have to pay a lot for all this stuff.

Well....it's a thing. I can't imagine that "take a real world system and solve it's two remaining unsolved problems by throwing money at it" is beyond a revision, frankly. Though I could and totally would write up a full design to make something really sweet out of the various modern weapons kicking around if we ever have a spare design or need more infantry firepower that can't be provided by alien means.

[Happerry]

Something that is more than “uses existing designs better”

That is kinda the base function of most specialized classes though? The Heavy Weapons guy is, well, a dedicated heavy weapon user, the Sniper has her own dedicated equipment, the Combat Medic really wants that medkit to be designed, the Grenadier/Sapper wants your heavy explosives, and so on. There's some 'shiny special' things like a Psi Trooper specialist, but even they really want their own unique Psi Amp design, and the Scout might be sneaky and stealthy but would still enjoy a motion detector and a cloaking device. This feels like the logic which lead to us not making any classes at all last game. And, granted, yes, we didn't know how the specialist system would have worked, but I still consider that more of a reason to make a Sniper and find out when classes are such a big thing of the new generations of X-Com then just ignoring it because the real world doesn't have character classes.

Anyway, since people don't want to put in a design for an Engineer I'll vote for it, but I really think it'd be better as a design, specially when we use the turret to get a HWP working.

"Sky Eye" Recon Drone (3): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Happerry
The Killing Sky (0):
Lethal Entry Axioms of Doom Entering Reality (0):
XCOM Requests for Deployment of Surface to Air Missile Assets (2): Madman, AseaHeru
Sleeper Cells (0):
StimPack (0):
Project "Requires Larger Gun" (1):AseaHeru
Training: Engineer (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry

[Madman198237]

"Sky Eye" Recon Drone (3): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Happerry
The Killing Sky (0):
Lethal Entry Axioms of Doom Entering Reality (0):
XCOM Requests for Deployment of Surface to Air Missile Assets (1): AseaHeru
Sleeper Cells (0):
StimPack (0):
Project "Requires Larger Gun" (1):AseaHeru
Training: Engineer (2): Chiefwaffles, Happerry
XAMWS Advanced Multirole Weapon System (1): Madman

Having thought about it, I've decided I like the idea of trying this instead of the SAM system. I also don't hate the idea of producing an Engineer specialization, though it is going to eat into our UP budget so we'd better be deploying drone + turret for every single squad with an Engineer.

[KitRougard]

"Sky Eye" Recon Drone (4): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Happerry, KitRougard
The Killing Sky (0):
Lethal Entry Axioms of Doom Entering Reality (0):
XCOM Requests for Deployment of Surface to Air Missile Assets (1): AseaHeru
Sleeper Cells (0):
StimPack (0):
Project "Requires Larger Gun" (1):AseaHeru
Training: Engineer (3): Chiefwaffles, Happerry, KitRougard
XAMWS Advanced Multirole Weapon System (1): Madman

Deep in the future
A squad of S.H.I.V.s flatten all
As Engi keeps them live
(Nuclear Winter)

[stabbymcstabstab]

"Sky Eye" Recon Drone (5): Chiefwaffles, Madman, Happerry, KitRougard, Stabby
The Killing Sky (0):
Lethal Entry Axioms of Doom Entering Reality (0):
XCOM Requests for Deployment of Surface to Air Missile Assets (1): AseaHeru
Sleeper Cells (0):
StimPack (0):
Project "Requires Larger Gun" (1):AseaHeru
Training: Engineer (4): Chiefwaffles, Happerry, KitRougard, Stabby
XAMWS Advanced Multirole Weapon System (1): Madman

I'll admit the XAMWS was tempting but considering how quickly we'll probably loot and steal properly research new weaponry it's better to get specialists as early as possible.

[Madman198237]

We might try to get alien weapons but it's doubtful we would actually get something amazingly better than a combination rifle and 25mm grenade launcher quickly enough to make the XAMWS invalid. Certainly a good investment of a revision. So is the Engineer, of course.

[Aseaheru]

 If we want to do XAMWS, why not just ask the Chinese(one of our bases, so they should be fine with lending some) for some of their actually-in-use QTS-11? For that matter, it might not even be a revision to get them, which means spending a revision on just picking up existing kit would be, well, a tad wasted.

 Yes, I know I write this having gone "lets do the same sorta thing but different", but that also has a shotgun.

[Madman198237]

It wouldn't be a revision to get them since they should definitely count as a "regular weapon", though information on them is a bit short and they seem to basically be a crappier M4 M203. They have a single shot 20mm grenade launcher permanently attached to a rifle---like a downsized underbarrel grenade launcher except with integrated electronics for airburst capability. XM29's integrated optics, electronics, and its larger and semiautomatic grenade launcher (taking the improvements of the XM25 into account, anyway) all make it a superior weapon system.

[Aseaheru]

 Integrated optics appears to be a commonality(And the QTS appears to have better optics, what with the helmet-mounted HUD thing), from what I can find, as do electronics. The main advantages of the XM29 would be capacity of the launcher and... thats it. Even the caliber of the grenades appears to be the same, although according to the Chinese, the grenades are actually superior.

 I am glad to see that we agree that we should be able to get the QTS without an action, which raises some questions over why both of us are talking about spending time getting something slightly better/slightly better with fun toys on the side