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[clinodev]

Hello there! IM new in DF and here too, and while I was playing, I discovered a strange thing, and now I don't know if it's a mistake or I just don't understand something

I apologize in advance if I sent this to the wrong place

Hey there!

I'm not sure what you're trying to ask.

This isn't the right place for it. This is an official announcement/discussion thread.

Try the Kitfox Discord or the /r/dwarffortress subreddit.

[voliol]

Hello there! IM new in DF and here too, and while I was playing, I discovered a strange thing, and now I don't know if it's a mistake or I just don't understand something

I apologize in advance if I sent this to the wrong place

That does look like a bug of some kind to me. I believe the best place to report those is in the Kitfox discord server, since the bugtracker is currently down/being migrated to some more stable platform.

[Erendir]

Are there official release notes for v50 somewhere, I can't find any...
I just want to know if animal care work now (a dog went to attack a rhino and is now bleeding to death...)

[jipehog]

No, only this:

https://kitfoxgames.notion.site/Dwarf-Fortress-Premium-Launch-Changelog-2300676dec054a518cc2f16e9401afed

[Inatun]

Is the Steam version likely to go on sale anytime soon? Christmas is fast approaching after all. If not then that's fine, it's just that money is tight for me at the moment and $29.99 is a relatively large number for my budget.

[Petr Ga]

Is the Steam version likely to go on sale anytime soon? Christmas is fast approaching after all. If not then that's fine, it's just that money is tight for me at the moment and $29.99 is a relatively large number for my budget.

Losing (money) is fun!
I for myself hope that the sale will not come anytime soon. There is no need for that.
Just play a free version, spare money and then give the creators hard deserved money

[Inatun]

Is the Steam version likely to go on sale anytime soon? Christmas is fast approaching after all. If not then that's fine, it's just that money is tight for me at the moment and $29.99 is a relatively large number for my budget.

Losing (money) is fun!
I for myself hope that the sale will not come anytime soon. There is no need for that.
Just play a free version, spare money and then give the creators hard deserved money

Fair enough. With all the work they've done I suppose it's a reasonable price to ask.

[ayy1337]

Just wanna say I have some issues with the dev studio handling the steam version, kitfox. They are banning people on the "official" dwarf fortress discord for posting innocuous pepe memes lol, what a joke.

[Starver]

Spoiler: More a general reply to Ayy1337 than having any experience of Discord moderation (click to show/hide)

Note that there are very few innocuous Pepe memes. If they aren't pro-Trump (or of the scene Trump personfified) then they're inevitably anti-Trump(/etc) counter-parodies. Even in the face of the few 'pre-adopted' originals or possibly post-post-ironic examples, I imagine a blanket ban is just more sensible than trying to uphold either side of the resulting debate.

Like the reasons to exclude the NSDAP's Hakenkreuz (and all intentionally referential derivatives, such as the Triskele) might end up overriding the wishes of those for whom the swastika or sauwastika is a perfectly legitimate cultural precursor. Because some things (even more so than Pepe?) have become so tainted by history that it just does not become worthwhile to allow in a general context.

It seems that the main example I was going to quote has 'recently' transitioned to being less anti-hookedcross in its moderation policies, but I'm not sure the userbase have much flexed into the additional legroom they have gained. That said, I'm not as on top of every part of that forum/game as I used to be, so maybe I missed the explosion in use, as well as the various re-focussings of moderation.

...in fact, I've never used Discord at all (and rarely look at anything on Reddit, etc), so I'm mostly a bit miffed that there are whole areas of (useful?) discussion that are not on here. But I can only imagine what it would be like if Bay12Forums was permanently slashdotted as the only place to be. Given the needs for someone (presumably not Tarn, who is clearly still busy) to make all kinds of moderation decisions, like the above[1], as well as reinforcing the actual servers against the more benign (but overwhelming) increase in use we might still be having.

(There's another particular forum I occasionally interact with, the "officially unofficial" one-stop-shop for chatter about a certain sport. In parts, a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" in both the 'lower forums'-equivalent and often even the On-Topic bits of the board... It makes me appreciative of Tarn's "benevolent dictatorship", and the much more sane atmosphere here. I wouldn't know if KitFox actually goes too far w.r.t. Discord/etc, but far too many places are much too hostile/anarchic for my liking and my almost four decades of experience of everything from BBSs to "Have Your Say" comment sections on news articles make me more inclined to stick with non-malevolent (or, at least, not horribly unaligned from my own ideas) semi-dictatorships than free-for-alls.)


[1] And presumably Kitfox has a few people whose main job is administering judicious review on their own media-areas' contents. Possibly picked up some experienced people dropped from Twitter, if nothing else!

[ayy1337]

Note that there are very few innocuous Pepe memes. If they aren't pro-Trump (or of the scene Trump personfified) then they're inevitably anti-Trump(/etc) counter-parodies.

Idk what you're trying to say, is liking a reaction image associated with people who like or dislike a US president something you think people should be banned from a DF community over? If so that's pretty bleak lmao.

There's obviously value in enforcing certain rules but this doesn't seem like a sensible one especially for someone who's spent decades on the internet.

[Starver]

I'm not even sure to what level this has happened. But a certain recent President polarises/attracts polarising to a shocking degree.

Directly or indirectly. A wiki I'm a regular editor for had an edit yesterday that Obama was President for zero days, because he never even produced a valid birth certificate (a statement that's provably wrong/a vicious smear/trolling/whatever). The signs, at least to me, are that the edit (quickly reverted) came from someone who put Holocaust Denial (mis)information in. Same kind of fool/idiot/provocateur, definitely.

Call me jaded, but I've seen (and can see) places dragged into a terrible descent. Yay, even unto the mighty Twitter...


And my age/experience makes me arguably cautious, just because I've seen it/been there. Some Usenet groups survived The Eternal September better than others, and not all were pristine even beforehand. Even in one of my past jobs, in part I had to assess various corporate threats to my company, and prepare reactions (everything that seemed possible to attack its IT systems, from natural disasters to industry espionage) and reputational harm was one of the aspects to consider. After I left that position, a failure somewhere in the processes happened that really hit the company (I did not prod and pry, ex-colleagues were ex-colleagues so I left well enough alone, but the public bits were very much in the news) and I could only hope my own contributions to the policy concerned was sufficient/followed/in effect at that time, though the failure was not strictly an IT one. Perhaps something better. But I'm cautious and protective about such things (not that I always necessarily practice what I preach!) so I'm definitely sympathetic towards avoiding obvious issues that are obvious.

That's all I'm trying to say. And I can't see any problem with deciding that this particular rule (if it 8s one) is sensible. How it's applied (strong words at an appropriate moment, a weighted "three-strikes" system, clearly publishing a guide (but not an instruction manual!) to what is unacceptable) is another thing. And "no My Little Pony" could be considered reasonable, should those in charge so wish, as long as it doesn't pop up as part of an apparently entirely arbitrary judgement system. But I didn't mean to divert the conversation with this. It's beyond my control/experience so I'm just expanding on my considered reaction to the original comment. YMMV.

[ayy1337]

A company shouldn't ban paying customers from their community because they happen to like the wrong president lmao, what is wrong with you brother

[Erendir]

There are other places to show your support for (real world) politicians than a video game forum. It's perfectly reasonable to not allow political discussions (or just trolling) there. There are other much more appropriate places to do it.

[clinodev]

Can we please keep this thread to the Steam Announcements and discussions thereof?

This is one of the very least likely places for Tarn and Zach to ever look anyway. There must be a dozen better places to make off-topic complaints.

[Starver]

My global apologies, for my part. I initially attempted to put my direct response aside. Exposing, unspoilered, only my tenuously relevent observation that the OG Official Forums were now probably far less Official, proportionately - but even that was not so On-Topic. Forgot myself when it came to the response to the response, however.

Not worth self-striking my contribution/editting into oblivion, as a matter of record/memory, but my (final?) full direct response to ayy1337 is now PMed. You lot should already know where my opinions lie. But I dare say that, if you're curious about the kind of thing I said, a summary of that is possibly available......that a company may always ban 'paying' customers, and must indeed be prepared to do so. How they enact this is entirely their business. Literally.
...but there's no reason at all to promote further such discussion itself here.


I do rather hope that Kitfox take note of us, here, at least whenever they pop in to see if they need to render the latest Announcement for our benefit. But I'm not yet one of their customers (ETA, on that point: New Yearish, or possibly whenever I think I can get it and DT to cooperate) so I've even less reason to expect them to take note of liddle-old-me. But roll-on such relevent discussion as we can yet scrape together here!