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[ndkid]

A few years back, on a thread about complex games, someone suggested "Rule the Waves": http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158588.msg7034609#msg7034609
I ended up purchasing that game, and rather enjoying it. It places you as the head of the Navy for a world power in the WWI+Interwar period, when the navies were engaged in research and construction programs to see who could field the most biggest guns. You get to decide not only on ship design and construction and research priorities, but also have imperfect impacts on diplomatic relationships, nudging your country toward or away from war. (And often left feeling like, if only you could delay war a few more months, your new battleship will have entered service and you'll finally feel ready.)

I'm a sucker for warship construction (both for wet and space navies), and the bare bones, dated look of the interface appealed to me.

By the time I got into RtW, talk about a sequel was already going, and sometime last year, I think, they officially announced Rule the Waves 2, which would bring the game into the WW2 and post-war period, meaning the entry of naval aviation into warfare.

Over the weekend, RtW2 was released. I'm starting back at 1900, with Germany. I managed to win a few minor colonies from Britain in a small war in 1905, but after scrapping some obsolete ships in early 1911 without sufficient replacements, Britain sought revenge, and I've been fighting a conservative war while wishing there were some way to speed up the commissioning of my new Battleship with her beautiful 14" guns.

Free demo available here: http://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/2002/rtw2-demo-download-link-live
Here's a LP someone's posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5zy9BAlnhA

[Knave]

The ship construction is a real treat I gotta say. Wish I was on my home computer so I could share some photos.

I picked it up over the weekend and I'm about 15 years into my first game as Italy. My 2nd war with France just popped off after allegations that they were behind the funding of an anarchist group that blew up one of my ministers.

All my designs are crap I'm sure, still trying to learn the best way to optimize ships and their roles. Really looking forward to getting some proper carrier tech int he next 5-10 years so I can rule the Mediterranean with an Iron boot.

[ndkid]

I thought I was bringing the UK to its knees in my second war against them as Germany, but then I helped slip a communist revolutionary into England, and his ideals ending up spreading among my population even more than the King's, leading to the Kaiser being executed and the Socialist Republic of Germany being formed. Thankfully, they kept me on as head of the Department of Navy. :-)
In the 10 years since, I managed to take a couple of outlying areas from Russia, and fought what was exclusively a trade war with Japan. It's 1927 now, and my first CVLs are entering service. My fighter designs are relatively weak, but I think my torpedo bomber designs are pretty strong. I don't see aviation becoming a major part of my navy, but we'll see.

Edit: Now it's early 1928, and I'm at war with France, and we have a massive scrap in the English Channel and North Sea. I have 6 BB and 3 CVL (one convert, two design), plus a large screening force; France is fielding 2 BB, 4 BC, and a CVL plus its screens. The 16 torpedo bombers I had between the two Ausonia-class escort carriers proved more decisive than expected, as the two French BBs outgunned me with their 16" mains and 12.5" belt armor. But the French BCs scouted out too far from the BBs, leaving them vunerable to an airstrike. Two torpedos found their home, and after my battle fleet had dealt with the BCs, we were able to take some nasty shots from the BBs as part of getting close enough that our 14" guns could pierce it. When the smoke cleared, both French BBs and two French BCs had been sunk, with the other two BCs needing to be put in drydock for several months, without seeing a single ship of the German People sunk.

Edit Edit: A few weeks after France lost most of its capital ships against me, Britain entered the war on France's side, and my allies, the Japanese, sent some ships to the Atlantic to support us. Time will tell whether Russia, Italy, or the USA get pulled in. (I should really turn this into a Let's Play or something, I guess.)

[Knave]

Edit: Now it's early 1928, and I'm at war with France, and we have a massive scrap in the English Channel and North Sea. I have 6 BB and 3 CVL (one convert, two design), plus a large screening force; France is fielding 2 BB, 4 BC, and a CVL plus its screens. The 16 torpedo bombers I had between the two Ausonia-class escort carriers proved more decisive than expected, as the two French BBs outgunned me with their 16" mains and 12.5" belt armor. But the French BCs scouted out too far from the BBs, leaving them vunerable to an airstrike. Two torpedos found their home, and after my battle fleet had dealt with the BCs, we were able to take some nasty shots from the BBs as part of getting close enough that our 14" guns could pierce it. When the smoke cleared, both French BBs and two French BCs had been sunk, with the other two BCs needing to be put in drydock for several months, without seeing a single ship of the German People sunk.

Edit Edit: A few weeks after France lost most of its capital ships against me, Britain entered the war on France's side, and my allies, the Japanese, sent some ships to the Atlantic to support us. Time will tell whether Russia, Italy, or the USA get pulled in. (I should really turn this into a Let's Play or something, I guess.)

Would definitely love to hear more as it happens!

Everything I've read seems to point to Torpedo Bomber spam being quite powerful if you're first out of the gate with it. Especially in the 20's when there is little to counter with it. I wonder if they'll take steps to nerf airpower early on.

[AlStar]

Although certainly sometimes historical accuracy must bow before game balance... shouldn't torpedo bombers be absolutely devastating before your opponent gets AA and/or a fighter cap to protect their ships? I mean, that's why carriers won the War.

[Knave]

Although certainly sometimes historical accuracy must bow before game balance... shouldn't torpedo bombers be absolutely devastating before your opponent gets AA and/or a fighter cap to protect their ships? I mean, that's why carriers won the War.

Ha ha, no doubt!

I think a lot of it has to stem from them being too efficient early on than is historical? Fast turn around times for fueling/rearming along with limitless refills of torpedos.

Though I imagine it mainly comes with the player having the foresight of how powerful a carrier-based attack will become in comparison to the big old battleships centric tactics of yore. The game has an option to include technological variance in the game to try and replicate not really knowing which type of warfare will be most effective. Torpedos/planes/zepplins/subs/guns etc. becoming more or less effective, as well as slowing tech rates down if players want to keep the dreadnought era going longer.

[a1s]

I mean, that's why carriers won the War.

Carriers won the war in the 40s. It's (a bit) like saying Napoleonic troops should dig in, because trenches helped the French survive 4 years of continuous war (which they did- impervious to anything from small arms to the highest caliber of artillery, The Trench was WWI's greatest military device.)

(I know trenches were invented long before WWI, same as planes being around since 1900s, but they were never used to greater effect before or arguably since)

[ndkid]

Although certainly sometimes historical accuracy must bow before game balance... shouldn't torpedo bombers be absolutely devastating before your opponent gets AA and/or a fighter cap to protect their ships? I mean, that's why carriers won the War.

Ha ha, no doubt!

I think a lot of it has to stem from them being too efficient early on than is historical? Fast turn around times for fueling/rearming along with limitless refills of torpedos.

Though I imagine it mainly comes with the player having the foresight of how powerful a carrier-based attack will become in comparison to the big old battleships centric tactics of yore. The game has an option to include technological variance in the game to try and replicate not really knowing which type of warfare will be most effective. Torpedos/planes/zepplins/subs/guns etc. becoming more or less effective, as well as slowing tech rates down if players want to keep the dreadnought era going longer.

I only have a few anecdotes to work from, so far, but it definitely seems like, even if I just have a half-dozen TBs going up against a warship with little to no AA or CAP, their torps *will* be on target and *will* explode, both of which seem out-of-sorts with the reality of targeting torps and torp dud rates of the intrawar era. I imagine this is something they'll fiddle with the balance of as they update.

[ndkid]

Ha ha, no doubt!

I think a lot of it has to stem from them being too efficient early on than is historical? Fast turn around times for fueling/rearming along with limitless refills of torpedos.

Though I imagine it mainly comes with the player having the foresight of how powerful a carrier-based attack will become in comparison to the big old battleships centric tactics of yore. The game has an option to include technological variance in the game to try and replicate not really knowing which type of warfare will be most effective. Torpedos/planes/zepplins/subs/guns etc. becoming more or less effective, as well as slowing tech rates down if players want to keep the dreadnought era going longer.

They have the enabling tech chain (can convert CVLs, then can convert CVs, then can build CVLs, then can build CVs), so they may just need to either make that chain longer to work through. I definitely feel like the 16 TBs I had in that battle should not have been nearly enough to land several torps on a pristine BB in their first battle, so I think there's probably some tweaking to do there, as well. (Additionally, I suspect the dud rates on WWI and intrawar era boats is lower than it should be even outside the TB case.)

[se5a]

looks very aurora-ish.
let me know if anyone gets it running on linux and how you did it, might see if I can add it to steam as a non steam game and see if it'll run through proton.

[ndkid]

Soooo, that war with France and Britain ended up taking a turn for the worse, and I ended up losing about 10 prestige and most of the big ships in the navy. So 1930 rolls around, and a right wing politician comes to me and says that he's planning a coup and wants the navy's support. And, I miss the Kaiser, and he's promising an increased naval budget and increased power, so I figure, sure, why not.
... turns out he was, um, a bit more of a right-wing German than I originally expected. The flag is... err... rather Red & Black now.

[Karlito]

looks very aurora-ish.
let me know if anyone gets it running on linux and how you did it, might see if I can add it to steam as a non steam game and see if it'll run through proton.

There's people on the NWS forums have had some success with WINE, I believe.

[Knave]

Soooo, that war with France and Britain ended up taking a turn for the worse, and I ended up losing about 10 prestige and most of the big ships in the navy. So 1930 rolls around, and a right wing politician comes to me and says that he's planning a coup and wants the navy's support. And, I miss the Kaiser, and he's promising an increased naval budget and increased power, so I figure, sure, why not.
... turns out he was, um, a bit more of a right-wing German than I originally expected. The flag is... err... rather Red & Black now.

10/10 would fascist again?
Did you get some unlucky matchups and loss carrier superiority? Hope you get your revenge soon enough!

[EuchreJack]

Soooo, that war with France and Britain ended up taking a turn for the worse, and I ended up losing about 10 prestige and most of the big ships in the navy. So 1930 rolls around, and a right wing politician comes to me and says that he's planning a coup and wants the navy's support. And, I miss the Kaiser, and he's promising an increased naval budget and increased power, so I figure, sure, why not.
... turns out he was, um, a bit more of a right-wing German than I originally expected. The flag is... err... rather Red & Black now.

10/10 would fascist again?
Did you get some unlucky matchups and loss carrier superiority? Hope you get your revenge soon enough!

Let's see:
Germany lost a war and went Fascist.  At least we know the game is historically accurate...

[EuchreJack]

Ha ha, no doubt!

I think a lot of it has to stem from them being too efficient early on than is historical? Fast turn around times for fueling/rearming along with limitless refills of torpedos.

Though I imagine it mainly comes with the player having the foresight of how powerful a carrier-based attack will become in comparison to the big old battleships centric tactics of yore. The game has an option to include technological variance in the game to try and replicate not really knowing which type of warfare will be most effective. Torpedos/planes/zepplins/subs/guns etc. becoming more or less effective, as well as slowing tech rates down if players want to keep the dreadnought era going longer.

They have the enabling tech chain (can convert CVLs, then can convert CVs, then can build CVLs, then can build CVs), so they may just need to either make that chain longer to work through. I definitely feel like the 16 TBs I had in that battle should not have been nearly enough to land several torps on a pristine BB in their first battle, so I think there's probably some tweaking to do there, as well. (Additionally, I suspect the dud rates on WWI and intrawar era boats is lower than it should be even outside the TB case.)

I think it's important know that in the history of your game, you basically Unleashed your new technology.  So makes sense the effects on the enemy would be devastating.