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[randomgenericusername]

Hold on.

Superdorf's ability takes effect on a random person that is targeting his target's target. Since I got an ability during night 1, then that means either hector13 or IcyTea31 were Nirur Torir's targets in that night. Shakerag was then confirmed to have brainwashed Nirur Torir during the second night. Then, Shakerag gained an ability during the third night and thus was targeting Nirur Torir's target during that night. So, they both must have targeted the same person.

Deus Asmoth's supossed targets included me, Leafsnail and Superdorf. Since that's 3 targets, we could assume he was the target of the brainwash. But even then, I have no idea where the third visit comes from, so it's probably fake. Used information that was already available, too.

That means Shakerag, Superdorf, Nirur Torir and me couldn't have performed the mafia kill. The only ones who are left are Leafsnail and KitRougard, who claimed to be able to only visit himself and "confirmed" by Leafsnail's report. If there's a scum team of three, I think there's the possibility they both could be scum.

Leafsnail: If what you're saying is true, then no one could have performed the night kill during the last night. You've cornered yourself.

[Superdorf]

Leafsnail, about your excuse of not lynching Tric because of the 'town idiot' lynching meta: How long were you thinking about that, and why didn't you mention it earlier? It feels like it has a hint of truth, but that was the worst possible time to say it. I don't see how I can not see you as scum, unless we can somehow still disprove someone lying about where they were last night.

It was a more detailed explanation of the thought process that I had already laid out in previous posts (eg "hasty lynch on an erratic poster for making another erratic post" was basically the same idea expressed in fewer words). So I did mention it earlier, that was just when I had the time to sit down and spell it out in more detail. I don't understand why you think it was particularly bad timing.

You started bringing up the "don't lynch him, he's clueless" argument after you'd already tried and failed to get a No Lynch, to lynch Nirur Torir, and to pass off TricMagic's words as typographically unsound. That is the timing issue.

...That said, I begin to suspect I'm beating a dead horse here. It's time for me to read the thread again.

PPE: Woah, crazy mechanical stuff from randomgenericusername! Gimme a moment to process that...

[Superdorf]

Uhh, while I'm puzzling through this, I should just point out that lynchvoting Leafsnail miiight be a wee bit imprudent right now. It's four-to-hammer, so if there's 2 remaining mafia, he's not mafia, and the people voting him aren't mafia, mafia could hammer him right now for-- quite possibly-- a won game. If I know that, they know that.

Fingers-of-Suspicion work about as well for pressure purposes late-game, I think. Might as well be safe and use them.

[Leafsnail]

Likely alibis for killing DA on night 3, from my perspective:
- Superdorf: I saw him go somewhere else.
- Shakerag: I saw DA with multiple targets which matches his brainwash claim from earlier. Unless someone else claims a similar ability it seems likely that was Shakerag's doing (see his partial claim below). Maybe it's possible to kill at the same time as using this brainwash ability, but that would raise the question of how NT survived night two.
- NT: If no-one else claims a possible redirect on Superdorf, Superdorf corroborates his action. Could potentially be on a team with Superdorf (who could then lie about being redirected) but this doesn't seem super likely to me right now.
- randomgenericusername: has reported information about who visited that could easily have been contradicted. I'll check again later, but as far as I can tell the generator can't make a passive version of the role he's claiming (eg "Whenever someone targets you, track them"). So it seems likely he was also using something like the ability he's claiming last night.

That just leaves KitRougard. I think you're the only person whose action last night is unaccounted for. I did see you visit yourself on night 2, but it's possible someone else on the mafia team did the kill that night and that your self-targeting ability is more useful than what you've claimed.

@randomgenericusername: I think you should read Shakerag's partial claim. I'd be interested in seeing his full claim, but I suspect that it's what caused me to see multiple extra targets.

Ok, just weighing in on the mechanics stuff, yes I have a brainwash ability.  It has the possiblity of causing said brainwashed person to target multiple people.  I don't want to reveal more than that at this time, because I don't want to give unnecessary information to the scumteam.

I'd also point out that the information about Shakerag (and possibly Superdorf's role, although he might've alluded to it somewhere I've forgotten) receiving a new ability night 3 was not publicly available before I claimed. You may be able to come up with some explanation for this, but it would be non-trivial (and I think would probably have to involve Shakerag or Superdorf also being scum and lying to back up my story).

[Superdorf]

I'd also point out that the information about Shakerag (and possibly Superdorf's role, although he might've alluded to it somewhere I've forgotten) receiving a new ability night 3 was not publicly available before I claimed. You may be able to come up with some explanation for this, but it would be non-trivial (and I think would probably have to involve Shakerag or Superdorf also being scum and lying to back up my story).

The only time I even hinted at my role, far as I know, is when I showed some unnatural interest in Hector's apparent ability-gain after N1. Your information is indeed solid; your roleclaim appears to have at least that much truth to it.

That said... your role is a role town or mafia could possess. You're in real danger of a lynching right now, and may have given us information so as to wriggle out of said lynching. Though your haste to provide us with useful material is a town-tell, it's not necessarily so strong a town-tell as all that.

[Leafsnail]

NQT: If someone has an ability along the lines of Maximum Spin's ("you can"..."everyone who is not targeting yourself") do they show up as targeting every affected player?
Also, NQT: Player A has an ability that affects "a random person targeting the target of their target". They choose to target player B, who's targeting player C, who is also being targeted by player D. Player A's action ends up affecting player D.
If Player A is followed, what player(s) do they show up as having visited?

This has to be the most complicated question I've ever asked.  I didn't really fully appreciate the implications of Superdorf's claim when I wrote my post above - if his role can bounce off to random people and I get to see that with my track then Nirur Torir is no longer in the clear. In fact, it implies that Nirur Torir may have visited Deus Asmoth last night, since from my result that was probably who Shakerag was targeting.
Other thoughts:
I misread Superdorf's claim.
Shakerag's claim could be really interesting depending on how it chooses its secondary targets and what the brainwashed action actually is. It could really help the town to see your claim, even if you don't feel able to post any substantive daygame content.
RGU claimed to gain an ability on night one, which would account for where Superdorf's action went.

[Superdorf]

Player A has an ability that affects "a random person targeting the target of their target". They choose to target player B, who's targeting player C, who is also being targeted by player D. Player A's action ends up affecting player D.
If Player A is followed, what player(s) do they show up as having visited?

I targeted Nirur Torir N3-- as I've done all game-- but my Gift landed on Shakerag instead, because !!RANDOM!!. You saw me visit Shakerag that night, so the answer appears to be "player D"... but yes, confirmation on that would be nice.

[Leafsnail]

If the answer is "player B" then it would tell us you were instead redirected and lend credence to NT's claim. But yes, it seems likely that it's Player D now that I think about it.

Hold on.

Superdorf's ability takes effect on a random person that is targeting his target's target. Since I got an ability during night 1, then that means either hector13 or IcyTea31 were Nirur Torir's targets in that night. Shakerag was then confirmed to have brainwashed Nirur Torir during the second night. Then, Shakerag gained an ability during the third night and thus was targeting Nirur Torir's target during that night. So, they both must have targeted the same person.

Deus Asmoth's supossed targets included me, Leafsnail and Superdorf. Since that's 3 targets, we could assume he was the target of the brainwash. But even then, I have no idea where the third visit comes from, so it's probably fake. Used information that was already available, too.

That means Shakerag, Superdorf, Nirur Torir and me couldn't have performed the mafia kill. The only ones who are left are Leafsnail and KitRougard, who claimed to be able to only visit himself and "confirmed" by Leafsnail's report. If there's a scum team of three, I think there's the possibility they both could be scum.

Leafsnail: If what you're saying is true, then no one could have performed the night kill during the last night. You've cornered yourself.

The bolded parts are strange to me. I don't understand how you got from "Shakerag and Nirur Torir targeted the same person" to "Nirur Torir couldn't have performed the mafiakill". Particularly when I had a result that strongly suggested that Shakerag targeted the victim of the mafiakill, Deus Asmoth. Shakerag hasn't explicitly corroborated that part yet but he could easily come into the thread and contradict it at any time if I'm lying.

[Superdorf]

...I remain suspicious of you, but your words convince me to poke elsewhere, for now at least.

Shakerag: Yesterday was not the time for roleclaiming. Today is. We've got one, maybe two days left in the game, and lots of hard mechanical info to work with-- roleclaims grow ever more useful to us, and ever less useful to mafia.

Unless you've something to hide, help us out here. It's time for transparency.

[randomgenericusername]

Likely alibis for killing DA on night 3, from my perspective:
- Superdorf: I saw him go somewhere else.
- Shakerag: I saw DA with multiple targets which matches his brainwash claim from earlier. Unless someone else claims a similar ability it seems likely that was Shakerag's doing (see his partial claim below). Maybe it's possible to kill at the same time as using this brainwash ability, but that would raise the question of how NT survived night two.
- NT: If no-one else claims a possible redirect on Superdorf, Superdorf corroborates his action. Could potentially be on a team with Superdorf (who could then lie about being redirected) but this doesn't seem super likely to me right now.
- randomgenericusername: has reported information about who visited that could easily have been contradicted. I'll check again later, but as far as I can tell the generator can't make a passive version of the role he's claiming (eg "Whenever someone targets you, track them"). So it seems likely he was also using something like the ability he's claiming last night.

That just leaves KitRougard. I think you're the only person whose action last night is unaccounted for. I did see you visit yourself on night 2, but it's possible someone else on the mafia team did the kill that night and that your self-targeting ability is more useful than what you've claimed.

@randomgenericusername: I think you should read Shakerag's partial claim. I'd be interested in seeing his full claim, but I suspect that it's what caused me to see multiple extra targets.

Ok, just weighing in on the mechanics stuff, yes I have a brainwash ability.  It has the possiblity of causing said brainwashed person to target multiple people.  I don't want to reveal more than that at this time, because I don't want to give unnecessary information to the scumteam.

I'd also point out that the information about Shakerag (and possibly Superdorf's role, although he might've alluded to it somewhere I've forgotten) receiving a new ability night 3 was not publicly available before I claimed. You may be able to come up with some explanation for this, but it would be non-trivial (and I think would probably have to involve Shakerag or Superdorf also being scum and lying to back up my story).

If the answer is "player B" then it would tell us you were instead redirected and lend credence to NT's claim. But yes, it seems likely that it's Player D now that I think about it.

Hold on.

Superdorf's ability takes effect on a random person that is targeting his target's target. Since I got an ability during night 1, then that means either hector13 or IcyTea31 were Nirur Torir's targets in that night. Shakerag was then confirmed to have brainwashed Nirur Torir during the second night. Then, Shakerag gained an ability during the third night and thus was targeting Nirur Torir's target during that night. So, they both must have targeted the same person.

Deus Asmoth's supossed targets included me, Leafsnail and Superdorf. Since that's 3 targets, we could assume he was the target of the brainwash. But even then, I have no idea where the third visit comes from, so it's probably fake. Used information that was already available, too.

That means Shakerag, Superdorf, Nirur Torir and me couldn't have performed the mafia kill. The only ones who are left are Leafsnail and KitRougard, who claimed to be able to only visit himself and "confirmed" by Leafsnail's report. If there's a scum team of three, I think there's the possibility they both could be scum.

Leafsnail: If what you're saying is true, then no one could have performed the night kill during the last night. You've cornered yourself.

The bolded parts are strange to me. I don't understand how you got from "Shakerag and Nirur Torir targeted the same person" to "Nirur Torir couldn't have performed the mafiakill". Particularly when I had a result that strongly suggested that Shakerag targeted the victim of the mafiakill, Deus Asmoth. Shakerag hasn't explicitly corroborated that part yet but he could easily come into the thread and contradict it at any time if I'm lying.

First of all, I don't understand what talking about with the "passive version of the role I'm claiming."

If we take your claim as true, then that would confirm KitRougard to be able to visit himself and that Shakerag couldn't have performed the kill due to using his brainwash. This would also mean that Nirur Torir would have visited Deus Asmoth.

We already know that Nirur torir's target and Shakera's target are the same, and that Superdorf's ability was used on Nirur Torir and took effect on Shakerag. I know as a fact that Deus Asmoth visited me, at least.

But if we ignore the report, then it's possible that Nirur Torir's ability was used on someone entirelly different, same with Shakerag's ability. So maybe they didn't target Deus Asmoth and you just faked the report to make Nirur Torir look suspicious.

I'll Unvote for now, since you did claim that Shakerag was visited by Superdorf before Shakerag claimed to have gained another ability. Currently waiting to see Shakerag's and Nirur Torir's claims regarfing their abilities, so we can make a more complete picture of what happened last night.

Keep in mind there's probably two scum left, so you're not exactly free from suspicion. You could have used your ability while the other performed the kill.

Also, I want to note that KitRougard hasn't really said anything about being redirected or not, despite his ability. I only recall him mentioning he visited himself once and then never heard another report from him. Seeing the pattern of these kills, I did suspect that the scum team could have one or two newbies.

[Leafsnail]

Nirur's claim is already out in full, as far as I can tell.

I'm guessing someone forced me to use my utterly stupid starting power. (Give my vote to a random target for the day. They get 2, I get 0).
The night left me with a new power. I think I have two now, and I see no reason to claim the new one at this moment.

Alright, fine.

The new ability is to "redirect the actions of a random target to a random player."

I don't know how I got hit with a redirect and given a redirect power on the same night.

I only had manual use of it last night. I used it, and don't know who it hit. I figured most of the remaining town abilities were likely to be weak or random, and was hoping to mess up the scum strategy.
I did not get another ability last night.

So NT is claiming to have started with "give a random target my vote" and received "redirect a random target randomly" on night two. NT didn't ever use the first ability, but is claiming to have used the second one last night (for some reason).

Thinking about it NT is the most straightforward culprit for the night two kill, in addition to there being evidence placing him at the scene of the crime for night three. There are other possibilities, but they mostly require specific teams and a specific plan from the mafia.

Night two suspects:
Deus Asmoth: Town
TricMagic: Obviously could have committed the kill, but his ability was so strong I'd imagine he'd want to use it if at all possible.
randomgenericusername: able to identify that NT (and only NT) visited him
KitRougard: I saw him visiting himself.
Shakerag: I saw him visiting NT.
SuperDorf: NT confirms they received an ability.
Leafsnail: I softclaimed that I knew Shakerag was the brainwasher before he claimed.

The player I've been waiting to hear back from is Shakerag, who has been entirely absent for a while and who I have reason to believe is the brainwasher now that I have clarified the rules. His silence throughout this whole issue is troubling, but I will say that he at least did not perform the kill on IcyTea last night. KitRougard also could not have performed the kill.

Nirur Torir: Seen at RGU's house, but we know he was brainwashed and that brainwashing doesn't block your original action.

Again, you can probably concoct scenarios where NT is innocent involving mafia members lying to support each other's claim, but Occam's Razor seems to be strongly against NT here. If there's only one mafia member I think it actually has to be NT.

[Superdorf]

Oog. This upsets me, for completely irrational reasons... but nevermind that. I'm curious to see how Nirur Torir responds, and I should probably go read some of his old posts in the meantime.

[Leafsnail]

I've realized my night two logic doesn't fly since TricMagic's ability was actually a weird day ability. So it's possible IcyTea was his kill.

[randomgenericusername]

The fact that you have been trying to direct suspicion towards Nirur Torir in a subtle (but not really) way makes me feel like you're really scum trying to excuse themselves and bringing another possible suspect to avoid having the town's focus.

There's something I don't like with the way you tried to bring up NT as a possible scum member. Wouldn't KitRougard be more probable to be scum? There's no way to prove he didn't perform the kill, either.

NQT: If an ability targets a random player targeting a target's target, but the player selected does nothing and thus has no target, would the ability take effect on the target directly?
And, when it targets a random player targeting a target's target, does it take into account the player that is selected with said ability? I mean, if player 1 is visited by 2 and 3, and the action mentioned before is used on 2, would it also count 2 as a random player targeting 2's targets like the ability says?

[randomgenericusername]

((Also, I know I haven't payed much attention recently and missed or forgot a few things, that's just me being tired and sleepy.))