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[Superdorf]

Nirur Torir: THANK YOU. You're asking all the questions my confused brain needed but couldn't produce.

Deus Asmoth: We're running out of time here. From what you now know, who-- if anyone-- should we lynch tomorrow? Why?

TricMagic: Please answer me. You're the closest thing I have to a proper scumread, and that's how it's gonna stay unless you keep talking. Keep attacking me, even. That was the most effort I've seen you put into an attack this game, and I want to see more of the like.

randomgenericusername: I'm not asking you to replace out. I'm asking you to stay, and act, and learn. Repeat what other people say. Shove yourself into our conversations. We don't care about your role, we care about your voice.

By your own words, you suspect KitRougard. What aspects of KitRougard's posts cause you to suspect him? When you've determined that, point those posts out to him, and ask him to explain. Repeat as necessary.

PPE:

TricMagic: Wait, you answered? Oh. You mean this:

Good luck there.

That... doesn't answer my questions. I'll reiterate:

- Nirur Torir: Has been posting. Hasn't been arguing, just jumping in to make a few points, talking for a bit, then withdrawing.

By my understanding, this appears to be dig at somebody, disguised as a read. Who is it directed at? Me?
And what exactly are you accusing me of? Reluctance to commit to a vote?

[TricMagic]

How is it supposed to be a dig? It could be constructed as a dig at Nirur, but why are you so worked up about it. Furthermore, why am, no. How am I close to a proper scumread to you when I've just started?

Moreover, how do you not even have a sum-lean, if I'm the only one you can target with this rather hamfisted attempt at pressure? Where is your evidence, or are you simply trying to create it? Is it a gut-instinct? Who else do you think should be lynched? And why are you asking others who to lynch?

[Superdorf]

Hasn't been arguing, just jumping in to make a few points, talking for a bit, then withdrawing.

You seem to imply here that somebody else has been doing these things. Am I wrong?

Moreover, how do you not even have a sum-lean, if I'm the only one you can target with this rather hamfisted attempt at pressure?

I'm not sure what you mean here. If my attempts at pressure are hamfisted, it's because I'm new, incompetent, and a bit of a ham. So sue me.

Where is your evidence, or are you simply trying to create it?

You started chasing Maximum Spin, without really saying why. I asked you about that, and you said you were too busy playing video games to answer. I accused you of apathy. This morning, you answered my question about Max Spin, and your answer seemed to me reasonable-- but now you levy aggression upon me, and you won't explain to me why.

To reiterate my question, again: What exactly are you accusing me of? But I should answer your question.

I don't have hard evidence on you. But you're acting very strangely, and right now that's the best I have to go on for anyone. So yes, I'm trying to create evidence. Will that evidence condemn or vindicate you? I don't know yet.

Who else do you think should be lynched?

As I said above, I don't have much to go on yet. Hector is behaving oddly, and Deus Asmoth isn't doing as much to scumhunt as I'd like.  I'm still stuck on suspicions and gutreads here, and trying to move past that... and running out of time.

And why are you asking others who to lynch?

Are you referring to my question to Deus Asmoth? I find him suspiciously silent, and I'm trying to get him moving. I don't expect much to come of it, but... we'll see.

[Maximum Spin]

MaxSpin, if you had a kill ability, who would you use it on and why?

As of right now? Well, Starver, because he isn't even HERE. Incidentally also my top lynch choice. There's an estimatable 4/13 chance that he deserves it (ie, isn't town) based on the best source of information for alignment estimates, Proc Gen Mafia 1; even if he is town, though, he's being perfectly useless and won't be missed, plus we get to find out his roleflip.

Hasn't been arguing, just jumping in to make a few points, talking for a bit, then withdrawing.

You seem to imply here that somebody else has been doing these things. Am I wrong?

Dude, you're misreading this. Everything from "just..." is what TM thinks Nirur Torir has been doing instead of arguing.

[Nirur Torir]

MaxSpin, if you had a kill ability, who would you use it on and why?

As of right now? Well, Starver, because he isn't even HERE. Incidentally also my top lynch choice. There's an estimatable 4/13 chance that he deserves it (ie, isn't town) based on the best source of information for alignment estimates, Proc Gen Mafia 1; even if he is town, though, he's being perfectly useless and won't be missed, plus we get to find out his roleflip.

I thought you were in favor of no lynching D1. Now you're not only in favor of one (and willing to ability-kill if you had one), you're pushing a lynch on someone who's not even playing, and so can't argue against it.

What changed?

[Superdorf]

MaxSpin, if you had a kill ability, who would you use it on and why?

As of right now? Well, Starver, because he isn't even HERE. Incidentally also my top lynch choice. There's an estimatable 4/13 chance that he deserves it (ie, isn't town) based on the best source of information for alignment estimates, Proc Gen Mafia 1; even if he is town, though, he's being perfectly useless and won't be missed, plus we get to find out his roleflip.

That doesn't give us enough information to be worth it, tho. Surely we want to lynch somebody with actual post content, so as to learn whether their word was sincere or no?

Hasn't been arguing, just jumping in to make a few points, talking for a bit, then withdrawing.

You seem to imply here that somebody else has been doing these things. Am I wrong?

Dude, you're misreading this. Everything from "just..." is what TM thinks Nirur Torir has been doing instead of arguing.

Oh. OHH. I dun goofed.

[Superdorf]

hector13

I could offer examples of why rolefishing isn't necessarily negative but that would be providing IcyTea with an out

- You said you could offer "examples", plural, of non-negative rolefishing. What other examples might there be?

- IcyTea provided an example of "positive" rolefishing-- namely, the rolefishing a doctor might use. Would you call such rolefishing positive? Why or why not?

- You're determined to lynch IcyTea, but you imply that your examples of non-negative rolefishing would provide him with an "out". Clearly you don't yourself believe this "out" sufficient to vindicate IcyTea, so why not provide your examples in the first place? Surely, since you've already convinced yourself of IcyTea's guilt, you have some counter-argument to close this "out" once and for all?

I even left a loose end and pointed it out to everyone(!) but the only person to pick it up was Superdorf, and he asked the wrong questions. Sorry brah.

- Once again: what is this loose end of yours? Why did you point it out in the first place, and why didn't you answer me when I asked for more details? You're being oddly cagey about the whole thing.

- And finally: you're voting IcyTea, and we're coming right up on the lynch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this implies to me you want other people to do the same. Is this so? If so, why should I vote IcyTea right now?

[randomgenericusername]

Giving up is useless. Try. You're voting for Tric? We have another day you can try to question him in. Quote something he's said or done, attack it, and test his defense. Don't just say "I guess I'll vote for this liability, it's better than nothing."

randomgenericusername: I'm not asking you to replace out. I'm asking you to stay, and act, and learn. Repeat what other people say. Shove yourself into our conversations. We don't care about your role, we care about your voice.

By your own words, you suspect KitRougard. What aspects of KitRougard's posts cause you to suspect him? When you've determined that, point those posts out to him, and ask him to explain. Repeat as necessary.

Sorry. I'll try to have a post ready by tomorrow, as I'm also working on other things and it's getting very late.

[Superdorf]

Sorry. I'll try to have a post ready by tomorrow, as I'm also working on other things and it's getting very late.

No need for apologies. I look forward to that post of yours.

[Superdorf]

So I was poking through the thread again, and I stumbled on something I'd missed earlier:

I have at no point suggested I want other people to vote for IcyTea.

Basically, if I were convinced my vote would be better served elsewhere, I wouldn’t be voting for IcyTea. Whether I want to see them lynched is a different matter, and you won’t find out until the end of the day. Believe what you want, I won’t tell you any different.

Unless something's changed, then, it seems I was wrong about this earlier. Which makes me wonder what on earth you're trying to do.

[Superdorf]

Gahh. It's getting late, and I've been overthinking this all day, and I don't trust any of my old gutreads anymore, and what with Sunday church services I'm gonna be out all morning tomorrow-- I'm gonna miss the lynch. I've got to cast my final vote now, and I just don't have enough to go on.

With that in mind... I'm just gonna put my money where my mouth currently is.

Unvote.

Max and Tric are strange, but I don't know if they're scum-strange or just strange-strange and there's no time anymore for me to find out. Of the passive types around here, I can't tell who's just inexperienced. and who's scummy. I have been inspecting that Icy/Hector spat for hours, though, and as of now Hector seems to come out from it the scummier.

If nothing else, lynching him ought to give us good information. If he flips scum, wonderful. If he flips town... IcyTea's gonna have some serious explaining to do, and that's at least something.

hector13: Defend yourself before the day ends, please. It'll give the others something to make a decision on, even if I don't see it.

I hope I'm not making a terrible mistake.

[Maximum Spin]

As of right now? Well, Starver, because he isn't even HERE. Incidentally also my top lynch choice. There's an estimatable 4/13 chance that he deserves it (ie, isn't town) based on the best source of information for alignment estimates, Proc Gen Mafia 1; even if he is town, though, he's being perfectly useless and won't be missed, plus we get to find out his roleflip.

I thought you were in favor of no lynching D1. Now you're not only in favor of one (and willing to ability-kill if you had one), you're pushing a lynch on someone who's not even playing, and so can't argue against it.

What changed?
[/quote]Are... are you just not very bright? I'm only asking out of genuine confusion.
I mean, it's hard for me to imagine how it could be unclear to someone that "given someone is going to be lynched or otherwise killed, this is who I would pick" can coexist perfectly well with "I would prefer not to have that happen yet". I mean, I've read the writing on the wall, it's obvious enough that the no-lynch train isn't getting off the ground here. Besides, lynching someone who, as you say, is not even playing practically IS a no-lynch. I mean back at my last internet home, we used to lynch a single specific person who literally wasn't playing first every time, both as a form of no-lynch and to shame her for quitting, but I don't see that getting traction here.

That doesn't give us enough information to be worth it, tho. Surely we want to lynch somebody with actual post content, so as to learn whether their word was sincere or no?

It gives us plenty of information! Suffice to say that, if we did lynch Starver, I know exactly who my immediate next target would be for each possible flip.

[IcyTea31]

It gives us plenty of information! Suffice to say that, if we did lynch Starver, I know exactly who my immediate next target would be for each possible flip.

Don't just leave that there this late in the day. By "next target" do you mean ability or lynch target? What's your plan for each flip outcome?

[IcyTea31]

Furthermore, is there anyone else who would elicit a similar "immediate next target" response if lynched?

[Maximum Spin]

Lynch target, of course. I don't actually have a kill ability.

I don't like to give honest reads because having everyone else know them changes the future. I mean to say, what I expect from other people and how I interpret what they do has to change. Nevertheless.

If Starver is mafia, my top pick (ie, immediately most lynchable candidate) is currently TricMagic. If town, well, you — that is to say, IcyTea31. If a third party, I'm leaning Leafsnail. There are of course second picks, in some cases very close seconds, but I'm not at the point of wanting to lay out all cards yet.


Oh, more questions.

Furthermore, is there anyone else who would elicit a similar "immediate next target" response if lynched?

Yes. Almost everyone, I suppose. Certainly you, TM, NT, hector, and Superdorf. I'm not going to do a whole tree, though, because things are still too uncertain. I don't like committing to things either.