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[Retropunch]

Thanks for the list!! Great to see.

I suppose part of this would be determined by how long the game has been in development before it was announced. Preferably 2 years otherwise we might see some of these items listed drop off towards release.

There was a tweet somewhere from one of the developers saying that it had been in development since Paradox bought the IP - so about 4 years I think. I do imagine that some of that will drop off though, or at least become slightly more constrained versions of it - stuff like the verticality - it sounds like it'll be lots of climbing and stuff, but may just end up with a few areas with 'jump buttons'.

I'd like to know how close the trailer gameplay was to the actual gameplay - I know it had a big disclaimer on it (which is great) but it'd be good to know. Regardless, from everything I've heard it sounds like they're definitely on the right tracks!

[Mech#4]

Yah, to my mind it's like "you were sired by a Nosferatu so you are also a Nosferatu". The clans to me don't seem like signing up to your favorite club, rather it's different vampiric strains like the ones in Morrowind. I think part of the distinction of Caitiff was someone who was turned but not educated or brought into their clan heritage.

Though, thinking, a lot of the clans could be rather indistinguishable at the weak levels shown by Thinbloods. Is that one a Toreador, Ventrue, Malkavian, Gangrel or Brujah? I don't know to what degree a Brujah is influenced by their blood to be more rebellious or, rather, is that just because they prefer to turn people who fit into that catagory? Like Toreador preferring artists or Ventrue preferring rich elites.

Malkavians and Nosferatu have more apparent elements, gaining psychological issues and appearance respectively, and there was the possible Malkavian Thinblood in the first game who had visions and could give you directions and forsee your future to a degree.

Thanks for the list!! Great to see.

I suppose part of this would be determined by how long the game has been in development before it was announced. Preferably 2 years otherwise we might see some of these items listed drop off towards release.

There was a tweet somewhere from one of the developers saying that it had been in development since Paradox bought the IP - so about 4 years I think. I do imagine that some of that will drop off though, or at least become slightly more constrained versions of it - stuff like the verticality - it sounds like it'll be lots of climbing and stuff, but may just end up with a few areas with 'jump buttons'.

I'd like to know how close the trailer gameplay was to the actual gameplay - I know it had a big disclaimer on it (which is great) but it'd be good to know. Regardless, from everything I've heard it sounds like they're definitely on the right tracks!

That's good to hear on the development time.
I got the impression from the trailer that it was not in-game engine. I think these images from the Steam page are in game and closer to what we can expect visually (with the usual caveat that lighting and visuals can change between now and launch):
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4

[Sartain]

Old World of Darkness had multiple perspectives on whether clan was physiological, sociological or mystical. It's generally accepted that clan is determined by the Blood but then again, the Antediluvians made themselves so what's theoretically to stop any Kindred the same?
There's examples of Nosferatu not being ugly, Malkavians not being mad and other examples of breaking the 'clan mould', so to speak.
I personally think the explantion is all three of the above: The Blood has mystical properties that will physiologically turn you into your clan, if you are socialized to it. If left to its own devices with no guidance, an embracee will typically develop a more generic vampiric nature, ie. Caitiff. Or thinblood, apparently although that used to rather be a measure of the potency of your Blood, as measure in generations remove from Caine. The Thinbloods are a metaphor for the End Times of Vampires because they're an end to the vampiric condition: No longer able to embrace, some of them possibly able to carry children, they are essentially the end of the loop.

This all pre-5th edition though. How did we even get to 5, which was 4?

[Mech#4]

This all pre-5th edition though. How did we even get to 5, which was 4?

I have no idea on the ordering of the editions. I do own Vampire: The Requiem.
::Reads on Wikipedia::
Original Version of Vampire: The Masquerade - Released 1991
Vampire: The Masquerade Second Edition - Released 1992
Vampire: The Masquerade Revised Edition - Released 1998
Vampire: The Masquerade discontinued and replaced by Vampire: The Requiem - Released 2004
20th Anniversary Edition (Revived Vampire: The Masquerade) - Released 2011
Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition - Released 2018 before being pulled from publication.

So I guess Reqiuem is 3rd Edition and the 20th Anniversary is 4th Edition.


Speaking of editions. A post was made on the Steam forums by someone detailing what 5th edition states about Thinbloods. This makes a number of comments about how their clan and powers work, as well as how they can lower their generation.

Spoiler:  Copy Paste from Steam (click to show/hide)

Pages 109-113 of the core rules are thin bloods

Almost human
Can only take slight damage in sunlight
Are actually now 14th and 15th and 16th generations

Can exhibit a wide variety of traits with no connection to their supposed generation, a 14th generation maybe to weak to form a blood bond but a 15th generation might still retain the ability to embrace and vice versa.

Clans
Always considered clanless and never suffers any specific clan bane or compulsion.

Damage
Take damage like humans but mend like vampires, they take aggravated damage from not only fire but also slashing and piercing weapons, impalement with a stake does not paralyze them but instead causes massive physical trauma, likely sending them into torpor, once damaged, thin bloods heal according to the rules for vampires.

Disciplines
Thin bloods pioneered and practice the art of thin blood alchemy. This potentially allows them to taste the Disciplines of other kindred... And get more than a taste if they can find the Vitae to fuel those workings.

Additionally whenever a thin blood feeds they gain one dot in one Discipline associated with the Resonance of the blood consumed, together with one level one power in the discipline, if the Resonance is Intense or stronger, they gain an additional dot together with a second power.

No additional powers can be gained this way nor can the rating increase with experience. This Discipline lasts until Hunger reaches 5 or the next feeding.

There is also this

Ways out
Straddling the line between mortality and vampirism, thin-bloods have a choice, while they do not age, and can thus stay thin bloods indefinitely, most of their kind sooner or later chooses the day or the night.

A thin blood who manages to commit diablerie on a "true" kindred absorbs not only their power and spirit but also their linage, turning them into a 13th generation kindred of their victims clan. The Camarilla occasional dangles this prize in front of a dusk born who show themselves capable of running the dirtiest errands and surviving, offering up a Cainite sentenced to a blood hunt as sacrifice.

Conversely, every thin blood knows someone who knows someone who returned to the daylight. The story usually goes that they became mortal by clinging to their humanity until they could hunt down and end their sire, thus ending their curse.

Of course, any mortal who knows about the kindred is a threat to the masquerade.

Literally word for word 5th edition. Hope this helps older versions.

So it seems like Diablerie may actually be an option in the game if the Camarilla aren't as hung up about it as they used to be. It still comes with large downside though, main a large humanity cost and a black-veined aura for a year. Longer if the prey is higher generation than the predator (equal to generation difference). There's also the risk of being possessed/taken over by the vampire you're diablerising if you fail.

[nenjin]

I highly doubt the Camarilla is cool with Diablerie. It cuts to the core of the whole vampire social structure, sire versus child, all that stuff. However, being that there was a mass embrace in the new game to kick off the story, the deal might be that there's so much chaos and uncertainty that it's the perfect time to commit Dialberie.

[Hanzoku]

Maybe this time around you’re Sabbat? They’re all about diablerie, and the Camarilla are a bunch of asshats anyway.

[Retropunch]

I'm absolutely fine with it not fitting perfectly with the lore - allowing players to choose their clan later on from the start is probably a good idea - especially in a story heavy game where you could get stuck in a play style/clan you really dislike as you don't know enough about it. You might think that the skills sound good/fit your play style, but you'd hate how they actually are etc.

I imagine they'll handle it by a forced act of Diablerie or that they'll add some sort of hand wave-y magical device that allows you to choose. I honestly don't think it'll be a big issue for anything other than the most die-hard fans, and whilst VtM is a relatively well known system, it's not so popular that hordes of people would be up in arms about slight changes to the lore. 

[Culise]

I highly doubt the Camarilla is cool with Diablerie. It cuts to the core of the whole vampire social structure, sire versus child, all that stuff. However, being that there was a mass embrace in the new game to kick off the story, the deal might be that there's so much chaos and uncertainty that it's the perfect time to commit Dialberie.

That quote also mentions outright that the Camarilla is apparently now willing to condone diablerie of vampires already under a death sentence...a permanent one, that is. It's surprising to see the Camarilla willing to bend on that given precisely that, as you say, it undercuts the core of the vampiric social structure, but it may be a sign of their growing corruption as well.

[Sartain]

I highly doubt the Camarilla is cool with Diablerie. It cuts to the core of the whole vampire social structure, sire versus child, all that stuff. However, being that there was a mass embrace in the new game to kick off the story, the deal might be that there's so much chaos and uncertainty that it's the perfect time to commit Dialberie.

That quote also mentions outright that the Camarilla is apparently now willing to condone diablerie of vampires already under a death sentence...a permanent one, that is. It's surprising to see the Camarilla willing to bend on that given precisely that, as you say, it undercuts the core of the vampiric social structure, but it may be a sign of their growing corruption as well.

As much as the Camarilla officially does not condone diablerie, the fact that a Blood Hunt might be a good chance for a Diablerie is mentioned in the books. It's not like the Camarilla has some sort of screening process, generally speaking, to look for diablerists

[nenjin]

Yeah, it's not that the Camarilla doesn't appreciate Diablere, it's just that they know it needs to be strictly controlled so the entire social structure doesn't just implode under the weight of all the fledglings turning on their sires.

But as soon as a Bloodhunt is declared, well, the fangs come out.

[Mech#4]

I think there was something about a lot of the lower generation vampires getting called off somewhere by the antediluvians so most of the vampires left in cities are of higher generations who this "calling" doesn't affect as strongly. They might not be as caught up about Diablerie because they're younger and more ambitious.

[Iduno]

As for DLC, the situation is not looking good. There's day 1 DLC and games journos are saying that they've received confirmation that aspects of the story will be sold as DLC.

Do you have a source for that? Because that's hilarious.

[IcyTea31]

Considering it's Paradox, I'd be asking for a source if someone said they wouldn't lock story aspects behind DLC.

[Mech#4]

There is this on the Steam store page. It outlines what you can get with the different versions they offer.

The season pass have story pack 1 and 2 as well as expansion so I guess the story packs would be the extra missions that was mentioned.

[ZeroGravitas]

DLC-wise I'd be expecting something like Pillars of Eternity has. the "season of the wolf" thing is kinda ambiguous but also like, potentially yikes.