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[Iduno]

looking legit, toreadors look like clubbers which is totally in character.

im waiting to see malkavians and ventrues. im always a ventrue player, i like the challenge of avoiding easy blood sources.

Don't half of the clans lack any way to feed secretely? No mind control, or animal control, or magic, or anything? And if you drug someone, it gets in your blood as well, and that hurts you for a long time?

To be fair, if you followed WoD rules the way they're written, the game's unplayable in plenty of ways.

[Cruxador]

looking legit, toreadors look like clubbers which is totally in character.

im waiting to see malkavians and ventrues. im always a ventrue player, i like the challenge of avoiding easy blood sources.

Don't half of the clans lack any way to feed secretely? No mind control, or animal control, or magic, or anything? And if you drug someone, it gets in your blood as well, and that hurts you for a long time?

To be fair, if you followed WoD rules the way they're written, the game's unplayable in plenty of ways.

I mean, you can always just keep some loyal ghouls around.

[nenjin]

Yeah, they have to do it the old fashioned way and lure victims to a convenient place.

[Iduno]

Don't they require 1 blood point per month per ghoul, and provide 1 pint every 8 weeks/2 months safely (human normal)? It turns out 1/10 of your blood is a lot to lose.

I think they also nerfed the drinking from animals, so even if you've got the powers that allow you to be around animals without them freaking out and dying from stress/running away, that's a solution that only works at extreme low-level.

If you've got decent level Dominate (3 dots), you can theoretically drink from humans without killing them or them telling anyone. If you don't want them to die, and do do nothing except exist, you only need 56 victims (8 weeks x 7 days) you cycle through to get 1 point per day to avoid starving. There's a reason they wrote that vampires are 1/100,000 people (which...check how many people your city has, and how many vampires there are in the average player group). Presence or other methods of luring people into an alley works similarly until one of the people talks to any of their friends and someone realizes vampires might be real, because it was a recordable attack that someone remembers.

You *can* kill people, but that would violate the masquerade very quickly. Ted Bundy is famous for killing 56-ish people over 16 years. 3 people for year on average, and he's super famous for it. You're supposed to be subtle enough to survive forever.

Again, that's only if you use the rules they wrote, which are terrible. The video games ignore a lot of the rules, which is good.

[Mech#4]

If it's like in VtMB1, you should be able to seduce people and feed on them in public. It would just look like passionate neck kissing to passerbys. I believe all clans can remove the holes from feeding by licking the wound afterwards. Seducing would more come down to your characters personal stats. Thinking about that, I don't think we've heard anything about character stats like security, computers, seduction, intimidation and so on.


JimboM12 might mean more the Ventrue limitation of only being able to feed on more 'upper class' humans. In the first game you gained no blood points from feeding on rats and a chance to throw up if you fed on homeless and the like.

[Iduno]

I think the video game also added amnesia as a side-effect, which helps a lot. Then you only have to worry about witnesses. As does the ability to drink an unreasonably large percentage of a person's blood without killing them because it's a video game.

The fact that these are known issues and have been for a long time, but remain unchanged in the rulebooks leads me to believe that the authors of the books intend for the game to be hilarious if you take the time to consider what the rules actually mean. Similar to Paranoia's monthly income=monthly rent, and also you need to pay fines and buy equipment and whatever.

The video games are more interesting because they're playable, but less entertaining to think about.

[JimboM12]

If it's like in VtMB1, you should be able to seduce people and feed on them in public. It would just look like passionate neck kissing to passerbys. I believe all clans can remove the holes from feeding by licking the wound afterwards. Seducing would more come down to your characters personal stats. Thinking about that, I don't think we've heard anything about character stats like security, computers, seduction, intimidation and so on.


JimboM12 might mean more the Ventrue limitation of only being able to feed on more 'upper class' humans. In the first game you gained no blood points from feeding on rats and a chance to throw up if you fed on homeless and the like.

yeah, i ment within the game rules established by VtMB1 cuz the tabletop rpg is weird and janky. i expect feeding rules to not have changed from the 1st game and maybe a few features added. i always end up in all my playthoughs (except nosferatu) with a harem of blooddolls spread throughout the game, and i'd like to see that changed a bit and expanded. maybe expand the idea that some bloodbanks sell bags of blood under the radar and you can invest into making them better?

[Retropunch]

I imagine a lot of feeding opportunities will come up in dialogue/quests (with the odd random person wandering down dark alleyways) and that you'll not have to feed super regularly. I imagine feeding in combat will be a big part of it too.

Again, I don't think they're going to sacrifice any gameplay/fun just to stick to the source material - it makes sense in a D&D based game where there's a huge following to bitch endlessly about armour class and the like, but for VtM it's so niche (and everyone is so happy something is even being made!) that I doubt there will be much outcry if they play fast and loose with the rules.

[Iduno]

Again, I don't think they're going to sacrifice any gameplay/fun just to stick to the source material - it makes sense in a D&D based game where there's a huge following to bitch endlessly about armour class and the like, but for VtM it's so niche (and everyone is so happy something is even being made!) that I doubt there will be much outcry if they play fast and loose with the rules.

To the point that I'm complaining they don't make the books more like the video game.

Paradox being involved worries me (they make pretty games that aren't as good as they should be, and require 35 DLC to have a finished product), the endless string of Nazis and rape apologists always involved with White Wolf worries me, but the fact that they'll change stuff from the books to make a fun game? That's what gives me hope that it will be interesting.

[Retropunch]

Paradox being involved worries me (they make pretty games that aren't as good as they should be, and require 35 DLC to have a finished product), the endless string of Nazis and rape apologists always involved with White Wolf worries me, but the fact that they'll change stuff from the books to make a fun game? That's what gives me hope that it will be interesting.

Agreed, Paradox aren't quite who I'd most like to have at the helm, but at least the games they make are a bit more focused on thinking/story rather than just AAA nonsense. DLCs will no doubt be a major part of it, but I'm actually OK with it as long as they just keep it to story/individual clans rather than locking away game mechanics or important gameplay.

I hadn't heard anything about the Nazi/rape apologists and white wolf - I know some of the fanfic/character writing/whatever comes across a bit rapey; but I guess that's just vampires in general. I really can't imagine it seeping into the game at all though.

[nenjin]

The stuff produced by Black Dog Publishing was definitely on the edgy, rapey, gross side of things.

[Cruxador]

White Wolf has always tended to be pretty left leaning, but they've also tended to be unafraid of getting political in general, and not imposed a lot of corporate oversight on their writers. I'm not surprised that something has come out which could be interpreted as right leaning too. Considering the subject matter of the games though, I'm inclined to be in favor of the general trend. When your focus involves the evils that lurk in the hearts of modern humanity, it's better to go a bit edgy even if it risks causing offense than to sanitize everything so that your monsters are nicer than ordinary humans.

The stuff produced by Black Dog Publishing was definitely on the edgy, rapey, gross side of things.

Well, that was the idea after all. Black Dog was for things too excessive to have a place under the main imprint.

[Iduno]

White Wolf has always tended to be pretty left leaning

You have any sources for that? Because their record doesn't back that up.

[nenjin]

If Werewolf: The Apocalypse isn't left leaning, I don't know what is. Eco-warrior werewolves taking on evil mega corps ruining the environment who are also puppets of an ancient evil? About the only thing missing is Captain Planet with fangs.

That said, looking back I never read much in to the political leanings of WW at the time. But with the diversity in player archetypes, clans, motivations, plus how free thinking many of their game worlds felt (Wraith in particular), I guess I would put them on the Left if I had to.

[wereboar]

Projecting much, boys?
If an artist explores darker themes it doesn't make him a rape apologist, a nazi or god forbid a right-leaning person. You should be very much ashamed for even implying it.
Likewise, having a protagonist faction resembling an eco-activist group doesn't make the entire setting or writer corpus left-leaning.
What's wrong with you people? Why are you trying to put everything on the political spectrum and label everyone as a "class enemy" or ally?