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Author Topic: UI make it easier to remove/delete stuff  (Read 1382 times)

funkydwarf

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UI make it easier to remove/delete stuff
« on: March 21, 2019, 12:34:12 am »

I always get confused and have to look through menus to remove stuff.

Piles(partial and full), zones, designations, constructions( before and after built), plots and furniture maybe more. Everything you remove from time to time when growing, planning, and rebuilding, has a different menu to go to to delete/remove/clear it. This has always hung me up in the past, and even now, when playing again for the first time in a bit, I was stumped removing a construction's designation (blueprint) before it was built with the remove construction tool before realizing that was only for already constructed things


There are different approaches to dealing with it.

There could be a generic remove function/tool that would work for most things.

Or maybe, if you use the wrong one, it could display the info somewhere of which menu to use to get to the needed remove function.

If mouse functionality is enhanced, maybe a right click menu could offer a way to "un" do whatever it is, or tell where to go to deal with it , or could have a menu item to "take you to relevant menu for the item"


 



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Starver

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Re: UI make it easier to remove/delete stuff
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 11:13:04 am »

Unmarking stockpiles, zones, burrows, etc sits, as it should, under the route to marking these. It's often logically going to be useful to paint/unpaint under the respective-to-type menu.  All these things are essentially 'invisible' to the dwarfs, until their designation causes an effect (items brought to the nominal stockpile), but are totally different things, and not all visible to they player stockpile areas are, but the others reveal only when activating the respective exiting method, I'm half sure). Could you have a generic "clear all" apply across that whole board of differing intangibles? If you do, keep the in-function this-thing-only unpainting method, definitely (perhaps slightly more consistently) or you'd have to dip in and out of the emplacement mode to unemplace any changes of mind.

Removing (dug) stairs and ramps is an option within the submenu where such things are dig-created. You used a pick to make a (relatively) undug cell into your ramp or stair and then you must again to remove the bits you asked to remain. Ditto with dug-then-smoothed-then-carved fortifications that you want to open into full empty. It ought to stay there (so long as you don't dig the 'full dig-out option to a nearer branch of selection) because of functionality, though obviously it' s not a "stay there to correct the designation, which is just overwriting with a plain-dig (or channel or whatever) before you exit. Staying there or coming back and stopping a designation (that hasn't been fulfilled yet) being a designation is also under that designation menu. But with designations being another invisible-to-dwarf' psychic' marker, the same argument as for the removal of (the totally different) invisible application of the will-of-the-fortress should apply, maybe. A "clear all", though there's key differences.

Removing built things is not the same. For cancelling their building before they are completed (or started) it's the q-interface upon thei 'ghost marker' and cancel them, individually. Once built, it diverges. Constructions need the Designation of Remove Construction, which you might think odd, while Workshops and Furniture-items get an in-workshop option to dismantle. There are any number of arguments for and against, but I suspect the prime mover is that anything that has an entry as a Room has that extra interface (e.g. for who it applies to, if not also including the orders part of a workshop) while a wall just has no need for this representation, so was never given it. Maybe ideally it should still be given (perhaps by 'adopted child' membership of the rest of the built-things list, just not listed in the Room list because that already gets full up with all the things that do end up on that) a q-menu access  to a Dismantle option to replace Designate-Remove. Though they have in other ways some similarity to raw diggable rock, even if they aren't diggable.

The question is, though whether a grand "cancel this" commamd, of whatever form, should act on everything removable. To what extent?  Just every type of zone, stockpile and burrow designation? Should it include construction dismantling (dangerous!) in with that? Technically would some people expect it to also convey Designate Dig on natural rock (and felling trees), or does it act like deDesignating upon any/all proper Designations (including Dig, i.e.  it undoes a previously requesyed Dig and even Mark-Only Dig) or is it asked to serve the equivalent of the Ramp Removal option? Does it also de-define room-spaces defined from Furniture, and would it do that with or without asking for the unbuilding of that Furniture at the same time?

There's a lot to be considered. By whoever is going to be asked to consider this (maybe the new partners are providing suggestions likw this. I expect it's already on their mind, but don't know how quickly it could come to fruition, or in what form.
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funkydwarf

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Re: UI make it easier to remove/delete stuff
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 01:44:17 pm »

I don't think the proper removal should be removed from respective menus, just maybe something added.

I understand the logic of it all, but It's all way too much and adds no benefit to avoid a "remove anything". All that you wrote pretty much explains the need for simplification.

Mining and chopping should not be part of this.

A grand remove all should maybe just remove one "layer" of thing.

Shouldn't remove designated rooms unless you use it to Remove furniture item.

Steps should remove whether they are constructed or dug with the same command and ramps too.

People claim this game is complicated, and it sure is to make, but it's realy not THAT confusing, especially with it now being a genre that people understand. It's just an illusion from weird stuff like this





« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 01:49:39 pm by funkydwarf »
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Starver

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Re: UI make it easier to remove/delete stuff
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 03:49:38 pm »

People claim this game is complicated, and it sure is to make, but it's realy not THAT confusing, especially with it now being a genre that people understand. It's just an illusion from weird stuff like this
I agree. It's only when I go into explaining the minutiae to a fellow connoisseur that it gets complicated, as we then need to g technical.

On the whole the individual remove/delete actions make sense to be in the contexts they already are. But given the Excel and Open/LibreOffice (and probably WP123,back in the day!) ability to select to delete from cells only the content (only the text content? Only the numeric content? Etc) or only the formatting or only the borders, or various combinations of these and/or other specifications, we know that an interface can be made to usefully "remove all things I desire removed". That seemed to be what was required. Which then leads to musing as to how far we actually go, with scope and possibility of selection. Well, led to my musing, anyway.
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funkydwarf

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Re: UI make it easier to remove/delete stuff
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 04:42:21 pm »

The disparity between some items needing to be selected with q to be removed(blueprints/unconstructed constructions) and it being a menu item to remove already constructed item. Remove construction should remove blueprints or contractions or even dug steps and maybe furniture.

It may make more sense to just enable some of the removals to remove other things that make sense. Leaving the current organization intact.

Maybe the xml interface abstraction idea would be a better focus for the ui improvement. That way the proven strong community can start experimenting.

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