Topic: Help me make weapon for a giant (Read 2830 times)

CohentheBarbarian · « **on:** March 16, 2019, 01:42:09 am »

I'd like help making a giant weapon (an uprooted tree)
Something that the giant could wield in one hand.

Or/and something really really big like a huge maul

CohentheBarbarian · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2019, 01:47:01 am »

https://www.google.com/search?q=giant+with+tree+weapon&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjjzsnSgYbhAhUVJisKHVxyD64Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=giant+with+tree+weapon&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.3...145608.147329..147663...0.0..0.470.1597.3-2j2......0....1.NDzSPfw_tpY&ei=2pSMXOP5G5XMrAHc5L3wCg&bih=598&biw=360&client=ms-android-oppo&safe=off#imgrc=tz3PtGHDTnFWOM

Ruludos · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2019, 06:47:01 pm »

Have you tried working with the raws yourself? Was there something that you didn’t understand?

CohentheBarbarian · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2019, 11:58:02 pm »

I figure take a training sword and upsize it. The contact areas would be the same and then make it more unwieldy.
Add an adventure mode reaction involving a log of wood
I'm just unsure of how large the weapon should be in the Raw's. Something an Ettin/cyclops would need two hands for but a giant could use one handed.
Unless there is something else I'm not considering

Sver · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2019, 03:46:17 am »

The size-weight relation for iron is about 150 units of volume (the SIZE weapon tag) equals 1 kg. Iron in the game is about x15,7 times denser than wood. I'm not an expert on the weight of trees, but quick googling suggests a full-grown, dried pine trunk might as well weight about 860 kg. Thus:

860 * 150 * 15,7 = 2025300

That's gonna be one punchy club. Better make sure it can never be made of metal. Wood is a fragile material in the game, though, so this tree-club will probably withstand 3 or 4 strikes before it shatters - the exact amount depends on the kind of armor it is hitting.

Giving it to the giants is the hard part - megabeasts do not belong to civilizations and, thus, do not get any equipment. You can, however, create a civ of, say, cave-dwelling giants, give them this club as an available weapon and ensure it is wooden by adding the [WOOD_WEAPONS] tag to the civ.

Ulfarr · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2019, 07:12:20 am »

Quote from: CohentheBarbarian on March 16, 2019, 11:58:02 pm

I figure take a training sword and upsize it. The contact areas would be the same and then make it more unwieldy.
Add an adventure mode reaction involving a log of wood
I'm just unsure of how large the weapon should be in the Raw's. Something an Ettin/cyclops would need two hands for but a giant could use one handed.
Unless there is something else I'm not considering

The most important thing you need to consider is that there is a bug that prevents an individual creature to equip a weapon which requires a minimum size that is bigger than the creature's species average. If you look at the wiki the average size for cyclops/ettins is 8000000 and for giants is 9000000.

So if you want all three species to be able to use it then use [MINIMUM_SIZE:8000000].

The 1 handed vs 2 handed is a bit trickier because the size of individual creatures of the same species can vary greatly. If my understing of how BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER works is correct then using [TWO_HANDED:8550000] would result in all but the smallest giants to use the weapon one handed while all but the biggest ettins/cyclops using it two handed.

Quote from: Sver on March 17, 2019, 03:46:17 am

The size-weight relation for iron is about 150 units of volume (the SIZE weapon tag) equals 1 kg. Iron in the game is about x15,7 times denser than wood. I'm not an expert on the weight of trees, but quick googling suggests a full-grown, dried pine trunk might as well weight about 860 kg. Thus:

860 * 150 * 15,7 = 2025300

That's gonna be one punchy club. Better make sure it can never be made of metal. Wood is a fragile material in the game, though, so this tree-club will probably withstand 3 or 4 strikes before it shatters - the exact amount depends on the kind of armor it is hitting.

I'm sorry if this isn't exactly relevant with OP's question but i'm rather interested in wooden weapons for my mod.

Can you please explain your calculation and the effect it implies? If it's just the weight of the weapon if made out of iron why did you use the size of one bar and not the actual size of the weapon?

iceball3 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2019, 07:56:24 am »

I would expect the-contact area face to be a similar mass-area (with consideration to square cube divided by two or something?) as the mace, maybe a bit larger area.
Training weapons have their contact area very dramatically conflated for what they are, i imagine it's just a holdover from when sparring used to be lethal combat, and dwarves needed comically ineffective weapons to not kill each other.

CohentheBarbarian · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2019, 06:43:42 pm »

I got these mocked up.
I made a variation of a giant without the megabeast and power tag called a common giant.

I cant generate it until tonight but if there are any adjustments needed please tell me.

[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CLUB_TREE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:log:NONE]
[PRODUCT_TOKEN:giant club]

also is this product token right?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

CohentheBarbarian · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2019, 05:36:23 am »

Quote from: iceball3 on March 17, 2019, 07:56:24 am

I would expect the-contact area face to be a similar mass-area (with consideration to square cube divided by two or something?) as the mace, maybe a bit larger area.

Thanks for the advice. Even if I only listened to what I expected to hear. I'll make some adjustments tonight. Thanks for the advice.

Ulfarr · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2019, 05:41:12 am »

As far as I know [PRODUCT_TOKEN] can be anything you want so "giant club" should be fine.

I'm not sure about what effect the [TRAINING] will have in combat, but I can tell you it's not strictly necessary in order to make a weapon out of wood. Likewise the [ANY_PLANT_MATERIAL] seems to be unnecessary since you already have defined your reagent as WOOD.

Sver · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2019, 01:58:29 pm »

Quote from: Ulfarr on March 17, 2019, 07:12:20 am

I'm sorry if this isn't exactly relevant with OP's question but i'm rather interested in wooden weapons for my mod.

Can you please explain your calculation and the effect it implies? If it's just the weight of the weapon if made out of iron why did you use the size of one bar and not the actual size of the weapon?

For the most part, because the actual size of the weapon would need to be found first (and it isn't always easy to find the length of, say, a certain blade, much less the volume), then transfer it into DF-size-units (which are not cubic meters), and then it would need to be assumed that the weapon is made out of iron entirely (a concept I'm not fond of). I've found it is much simpler to google the weapons weight for the material it is intended to be made off (iron/steel for swords). I've found it is much simpler to google the weapons weight for the material it is intended to be made off (iron/steel for swords), figure out the DF-size-units and weight relation through trial and error (make several test weapons with different sizes and look where is the breaking point between <1 and 1 kg) and apply the magical number (which turned out to be about 150) ever after. The formula in the end looks like this:

realistic_weapon_SIZE = realistic_weapon_weight_in_kg * 150 * mat_density / 7850

The effect here is that we get a tree-trunk club which would actually weight like a tree-trunk when made of wood in the game. Along comes a rather sizeable attack momentum bonus.

Ulfarr · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2019, 05:39:39 am »

Thank you

Quote from: Sver on March 19, 2019, 01:58:29 pm

then transfer it into DF-size-units (which are not cubic meters), and then it would need to be assumed that the weapon is made out of iron entirely (a concept I'm not fond of).

Aren't DF size units supposed to be cubic centimeters?

Sver · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2019, 01:23:18 pm »

Now that you said it, I recall it is true at least for the creature sizes. The difficulty of finding a realistic weapon's volume still makes it simpler to measure the size through the in-game weight, though.

CohentheBarbarian · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2019, 03:54:21 pm »

So I changed the wpn to match a mace. Added the reaction to my mountain entity. Added my common_giants as a caste (pop_ratio 5) and removed the pet tags

During my embark screen my dwarfs were offering to make me some insanely expensive ones out of metal. Maybe they were trying out some SCIENCE! of their own?

Really wish I could have stumped the cost of a silver one.

Any idea what pop_ratio is good to make them rare but not virtually non existent?

One giant genned but he was kidnapped during world hen by kobolds

Ulfarr · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2019, 04:54:20 pm »

Did you add a [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CLUB_TREE] to the entity? That automaticaly gives access to metal versions of the weapon through the weaponsmith.

The reaction will work during play even without the above token but the clubs will not be available during embark (and possibly neither through trading I 'm not sure). Maybe I dismissed the [TRAINING] token too soon, it's supposed to limit the weapon to be made only from wood.

News:

Author Topic: Help me make weapon for a giant (Read 2830 times)

CohentheBarbarian

Help me make weapon for a giant

CohentheBarbarian

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Ruludos

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

CohentheBarbarian

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Sver

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Ulfarr

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

iceball3

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

CohentheBarbarian

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

CohentheBarbarian

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Ulfarr

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Sver

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Ulfarr

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Sver

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

CohentheBarbarian

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant

Ulfarr

Re: Help me make weapon for a giant