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[Cruxador]

The Steam forum is getting a bit out there at the moment, actually. It just got moderated relatively harshly which... Will probably make things worse.

[HmH]

The Steam forum is getting a bit out there at the moment, actually. It just got moderated relatively harshly which... Will probably make things worse.

Moderators(or one of the moderators, anyway) are still overdoing it. Blocking entire threads and banning users, just because they are raising inconvenient topics? Are they striving for a censorship scandal?

I hope Toady takes care of that problem soon. People might start boycotting the game if this continues.

[MaGicBush]

Yea Im sort of on the fence now on purchasing or donating and I hate to say that. I have been here as a fan since 2010, and played a lot of df. I hope they get a handle on the censorship. Just delete the trouble makers posts and temp ban them. They are locking threads with no personal attacks as well.

[Manveru Taurënér]

Nothing good could really have come out of most the discussions that were removed from there though, from what I saw even the ones with a soomewhat decent starting point had the majority of posts being stuff you'd have to remove, and with the topic in question there's no way that would ever change but just be an everfilling shitfest so eh. And it's not like pretty much every single forum on the internet have forbidden topics already.

Edit: Checking again they might have been a bit heavyhanded with one or two threads, wouldn't really say it's as huge an issue as some make it out to be though, mostly just people being triggered they can't say whatever vile stuff they want.

[MaGicBush]

I have not said anything vile, nor did I intend to. Just because we don't want said feature in the game does not mean we are going to spew hate. It just has no place in this fantasy game or the original lore imho. I don't want to derail this thread as it's about steam, but just saying my opinion real quick and why I feel the censorship is over the top as it's related to Steam. Regardless at least we should be able to mod it if we don't like it so it's not that big of a deal, but the censorship is what I was concerned with. Some users are stating they got banned on Twitter as well for just agreeing that it didn't belong, but I am not sure if they are lying and said much worse(guess I may have my answer soon here if I get in trouble for this post lol).

Have a good day .

[Manveru Taurënér]

Didn't mean to say you specifically did, and sorry if you took it that way (though the site you linked to more or less was, at least in it's comments, which I assume you might not have noticed though. There were sane voices here and there, and I guess people getting triggered over perceived censorship are to some extent a separate crowd to the outright hateful ones. Even if one were to have some kind of unbiased objection to said feature, there just isn't any way such a discussion wouldn't become incredibly toxic with how a lot of people are on those kind of subjects, and imo if someone gets so offended over that they can't talk about the subject that they'll boycott the game or whatever that's their loss I guess.

And yeah, wish you a good day as well!

[Cruxador]

I have not said anything vile, nor did I intend to. Just because we don't want said feature in the game does not mean we are going to spew hate. It just has no place in this fantasy game or the original lore imho. I don't want to derail this thread as it's about steam, but just saying my opinion real quick and why I feel the censorship is over the top as it's related to Steam. Regardless at least we should be able to mod it if we don't like it so it's not that big of a deal, but the censorship is what I was concerned with. Some users are stating they got banned on Twitter as well for just agreeing that it didn't belong, but I am not sure if they are lying and said much worse(guess I may have my answer soon here if I get in trouble for this post lol).

Have a good day .

You can see what happened on Twitter since neither Bay12 nor Kitfox can actually ban or delete people from there, only block them. There were blocks that I would consider excessive, anyway, though behavior wasn't universally non-toxic there either.

[George_Chickens]

Yea Im sort of on the fence now on purchasing or donating and I hate to say that. I have been here as a fan since 2010, and played a lot of df. I hope they get a handle on the censorship. Just delete the trouble makers posts and temp ban them. They are locking threads with no personal attacks as well.

Why donating? Toady has no control (It turns out he *does* have a degree of control over the forum but the bans were by Kitfox staff and even Steam community moderators) over the Steam forum, it's 100% Kitfox. Kitfox gets 0% of the proceeds of donation. Toady gets about 50% (Steam takes 30%, Kitfox 20%) of the cash from purchases, so IMO it's better to donate directly, anyway.

[DG]

I hope Toady takes care of that problem soon. People might start boycotting the game if this continues.

I'm hoping that steam doesn't increase this sort of busy-work for him.

Having said that, those threads would get the same treatment here, so having Toady personally moderate them wouldn't change anything.

[HmH]

Having said that, those threads would get the same treatment here, so having Toady personally moderate them wouldn't change anything.

Would they? The only time I remember him going berserk was that incident with the "Most evil/horrific thing you've done" thread. In most other cases, he doesn't do much more than delete a few posts or ban a single offender.

Meanwhile, many blocked threads on Steam seemed to be discussing gender issues in a pretty civilized way, with no clear violation of the rules. Even when there was any trolling, it wasn't so bad that the entire thread would get locked here on Bay 12.

[George_Chickens]

People have made threads here debating whether or not gay dorfs were a useless feature without any bans, locks or trolling. Toady's moderation style is extremely relaxed outside extreme cases. What I think happened with Steam is Kitfox did not moderate it adequately so Steam's community mods stepped in. They're invariably shit and probably overstepped the line.

[Shonai_Dweller]

With any luck people will have forgotten any of this by the time the Steam version turns up in a year or so. And of course by the time said feature gets silently implemented, say 10-15 years from now (and noticed several years later).

[DG]

Would they?

The last one I recall was Mickhah making a thread asking about how to mod it out (quite offensively in the end, granted) and he got shown the door fairly quickly. My recollection of any in-game-LGBTQI "discussion" threads here is that they all attract moderation, but maybe I just more easily notice and remember negatives.

I do think that certain types of threads get a reputation after a while and the moderation of them then becomes summary, and I don't think unfairly. "Things that made you angry today" or My Little Pony threads or atheism vs religion come to mind.

[Manveru Taurënér]

It's worth noting for those checking the locked threads that are left there now, that there were quite a bit of pretty nasty comments in all (from what I can remember anyhow) the locked ones still shown which they seem to mostly have removed by now (talk about "killing trannies", torture, that they'll probably all kill themselves anyway ad varoious personal attacks back and forth etc). Probably doesn't help the forum image to lock threads and then clean them up, giving the impression that it wasn't all that bad for people checking it out afterwards. And I sincerely doubt that those outright removed were the bastions of civil discourse some people make them out to be (not to say some over-eager mod can't have grabbed a bit too much cleaning out the shitstorm, but understandable if so imo).

[Sime]

I dived into the steam forum hoping to find something quotable and found this:

And let's not forget the main point: DF isn't coming to Steam out of the goodness of his heart, he just did so because he needs money for his brother's cancer treatment. The game has been in development for 17 years now and it's at what version? 0.44 or something?

l find that so laughably absurd,  i think it should be the official quote for the steam version.