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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 454304 times)

Pillbo

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2250 on: October 05, 2020, 02:41:08 pm »

Hanging Rings on cabinets could possibly be used for the handles to make it make more sense.  The chairs kinds of look like desks or small tables to me.
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neobit

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2251 on: October 05, 2020, 03:16:04 pm »

(...) The chairs kinds of look like desks or small tables to me.

I feel same but for last line of chairs only, they look unstable.
If you want to stick with single leg, maybe resizing its bottom could improve the looks?

vs
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 03:33:09 pm by neobit »
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2252 on: October 05, 2020, 03:41:26 pm »

...
It might jump out less, visually, if those decoration graphical elements will inherit the color of the decoration material. Of course, if they're microcline it could get way worse, but at least then it's accurate.

I think it did already? There were some images shown earlier with golden decorations for exxample being gold colored.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2253 on: October 05, 2020, 05:31:57 pm »

[...]but the spikes and rings look kinda nonsensical. Partly that can't be helped because putting spikes and rings on a stool or cabinet is already something we never see in real life,
I'll admit my first thought about the rings (most of all on the cabinet) was "multiple intimate piercings by a certain type of actress".

Second thoughts reminded me that these textural illustrations had to be created to match the textual 'illustrations' perhaps conjured into being by first imagining (perfectly 'reasonable'?) ring-ornamentation upon certain other types of goods and then extending it out to everything. (Or, maybe, not restricting it from anything... Can a ring be "decorated with rings"? Maybe worth checking. Not that I couldn't think of some arty ring with small rings upon it[1]...)

So my third thoughts are that although it might not be an obvious visual configuration (I tended to think of something like a "lion-head vase" ring-attachment, not entirely adorned but in locations where carrying/suspension handles are possibly more useful than merely ornamentation), then why not? Dwarves are peculiar beings, and though rings affixed upon a human bedframe might be... more strategically placed for a given purpose as anchor points, then why not just have them demonstrating some craft-aesthetic peculiar to them (or at most their whole fantasy world).


[1] I've made a chainmail bracelet for someone, once, of 'armour'-sized rings and also worked with chainmail rings small enough to possibly 'sleeve' an item of finger-jewellery
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Urist McBlind

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2254 on: October 05, 2020, 06:00:34 pm »

(...)The chairs kinds of look like desks or small tables to me.
Yeah, for me these read as tables more easily than the actual tables (exactly the viewing angle I would prefer for them ;D). Maybe round seats to go with square tables? Could we maybe get pictures of chairs next to tables, since that is how we're mostly going to see them?

I think more varied quality levels would be cool since I think the causation for players not caring about quality differences goes the other way, and isn't really about not being able to determine which version to get; People just mix different quality beds because they can't see a difference, but would totally be willing to accept churning out tons of beds to produce enough beds to fit an aesthetic. It's why most people don't bother putting many decorations on furniture at the moment (as far as I can tell from talking to people and looking at community forts) but are excited about your renderings here - it's a lot of effort for something you don't get much out of, but you can be sure I'm going to make all my tables in a dining room have complementing decorations now that it looks this great.
Of course, that would require a lot of different art, and would end up very subjective, but it might be worth it at the very high (like extended bedposts or the round balls in Hiul's post for artefact or masterwork) and very low levels (I like the straw suggestions) while keeping the intermediate stages relatively mundane/interchangeable.

As for the decorations, I think the rings look nice, if you think of them dangling loosely, kind of like a chime. Alternatively you might want to just put them as inlays rather than standing off at angles, or use them as handles.
The spikes might be less jarring if you treat them more like studs, and put them along the chair or table legs, or the corner pieces of the cabinet, rather than going in a circle around the object. The spikes on top of the cabinet should definitely be along the front rather than along the back, since the ring of spikes looks continuous on first glance but can't be unless they go diagonally along the side surfaces for some reason.

Also, are the drawer/door combinations on the cabinets random or indicative of something?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 06:08:21 pm by Urist McBlind »
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MoltenIdol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2255 on: October 05, 2020, 07:37:14 pm »

It would be cool to be able to toggle decorations off. (Without toggling off engravings).

I cant recall if there was already any comment on this.

Also, I'm really curious, so om just gonna ask:
How far are you guys in the artistic part of the process? Are all creatures done?
Are you doing Some work here and there, or are you generally focusing on one category at a time eg. furniture?

Its very exciting. I almost feel guilty for asking.
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Pillbo

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2256 on: October 05, 2020, 08:07:29 pm »

It would be cool to be able to toggle decorations off. (Without toggling off engravings).

I think the option to toggle decorations, quality, wear and contaminants will make many people skeptical of the tileset happy. Maybe just a 'simplified graphics' option that turns all that off.
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clinodev

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2257 on: October 05, 2020, 10:45:32 pm »

Quote
I think the option to toggle decorations, quality, wear and contaminants will make many people skeptical of the tileset happy. Maybe just a 'simplified graphics' option that turns all that off.

I typed in and then deleted a comment last night about simplicity, but if we're all piling on, lol. . ..

I find myself simultaneously wanting to encourage every possible complication of the official tileset (to give future tileset more options,) while at the same time hoping for simpler third party tilesets for myself. I don't do the sort of mass housing levels a lot of people do for various reasons, but if I did, I think the various furniture grades would drive me mad, much less spatter and wear.
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Zesty

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2258 on: October 05, 2020, 10:47:38 pm »

Well, there are two ways to go about this: Have a big difference between the quality levels, or make it a gradient. I decided to use a gradient, since players can't control the quality level. No one can say "hey, please build 3 superior beds and 3 exceptional beds, thanks". If that would be the case, I might go for more unique designs between the quality levels.

I finish the chairs and cabinets in this style as well:





Menaces with spikes? Neat. Rings aren't as neat.

I like variation, I just hope it all looks good in the big picture. I mentioned before how things being too busy may be an issue.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 10:50:43 pm by Zesty »
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Meph

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2259 on: October 06, 2020, 03:13:41 am »

Simplicity: Wear is extremely rare on furniture. Spatter is relatively rare and will be cleaned. Decorations are player controlled. Variations are player controlled. In the end, most of the furniture should look like regular furniture, unless you go out of your way to make it fancy on purpose.

The decorations would take on the color of the material used.

Wider stand for the chair makes sense. :)

Quote
How far are you guys in the artistic part of the process? Are all creatures done?
The creatures are mainly done. All regular creatures are done, I think there are only 30 ish animal men missing or so. The giant animals mostly use an enlarged version of the base animal sprite, so they don't look super pretty; and the zombies are currently a recolor instead of a unique sprite. Procedurally generated creatures aren't done yet, though I did make one as a test, the Nightcreatures. FBs are more complicated, and I'm part way through the werecreatures. Those two are tricky because they have creature types in them that otherwise don't exist in the game, like snakefly, lacewing, antlion larva... there are 211 base bodies for FBs, most of which are unique to FBs. ^^

This is how the creature sheets look atm: Adult, child, Adult zombie, Child zombie, war trained, hunting trained, female adult/child/zombies, adult/child corpse. The zombies are more or less placeholders, I'd love to replace them with actual zombified versions. The corpses are desaturated, turned 90° and have a blood-spatter effect... in theory we could do unique corpse sprites too (look at the top-right at the llama corpses) but that would be a lot more work. A stretch goal for sure. ;)



We will go over the sprites before release and fix anything that stands out a lot. For example I prefer to stick close to relative size (smaller cat for example), and there are some stylistic differences here and there. For example I did all the vermin, which include some fish, and I made them side-view; Mike did the creature aquatic file and drew them seen at an angle. Now we have two different looking styles for fish. ^^ 

Quote
Are you doing Some work here and there, or are you generally focusing on one category at a time eg. furniture?
Mike focusses on one thing at a time and perfects it, I prefer to jump around, having a lot of discussions with Tarn about how to code certain parts, how the mod support would work best, test v.1, make a v.2, while waiting for it do something else... ;)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 03:16:33 am by Meph »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2260 on: October 06, 2020, 03:45:47 am »

I'm not sure it's a bad thing to have vermin fish and "real" fish using distinct styles. That allows you to immediately see that it's one or the other.
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MoltenIdol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2261 on: October 06, 2020, 04:29:22 am »

Alright, thanks for the elaborate answer, and thanks meph and mike, for your awesome work.

(Yay for smaller cats!)

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clinodev

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2262 on: October 06, 2020, 04:41:56 am »

Love the war vs. hunting dog variations!

I'm not sure it's a bad thing to have vermin fish and "real" fish using distinct styles. That allows you to immediately see that it's one or the other.

Agreed.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2263 on: October 06, 2020, 05:12:40 am »

Can't remember if it's been brought up, but in regards to peacocks, the peachicks afaik look pretty identical between the sexes, so would be more accurate to use the same sprite for both  ^^
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