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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 459863 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1875 on: July 12, 2020, 01:20:05 am »

the bed look weird, i think because the pillow is to small or the bed is to wide.
They're double beds. Pillow looks about the right size. Presumably there are two when the bed is shared.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1876 on: July 12, 2020, 08:44:23 am »

So long as they don't feature many throw-cushions scattered all over the place... (What abominable race would have those? I don't think either Elves or Goblins would stoop so low.)
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ror6ax

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1877 on: July 13, 2020, 03:08:57 am »

Straw beds from Gnomoria make a lot of sense on a certain level of fortress development. Or at least stone bunk beds. This reliance on wood for one of the very important needs is not dwarfy enough IMO.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1878 on: July 13, 2020, 03:35:28 am »

Straw beds from Gnomoria make a lot of sense on a certain level of fortress development. Or at least stone bunk beds. This reliance on wood for one of the very important needs is not dwarfy enough IMO.
I'd hate to have to replace all the beds at a point when the game decides our dwarves have suddenly gained the knowledge of bed making (which they somehow forgot on their way from the mountain home). Or do straw mats get magically replaced by real beds when some gamey trigger is reached?
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1879 on: July 13, 2020, 09:31:50 am »

If it's not iust the visuals, then that's a game-mechanics change.


From a visual POV, there's already much weirdness (conversion of log to planked flooring, which can be ripped up to form an axle, a windmill blade, stairs of various configurations, wagon-tracks, a bit of bridge, and back and forth between however many forms you wish, before commiting to be carved or otherwise constructed into cages or cups, bucklers or beds, hatch-covers or hives, which do not tend to look like they were bashed out of materials recycled from old constructiions. And there's no internal requirement to make or fit door handles, hinges, brackets, etc, where quute clearly most graphic-packs would visually suggest that such a process has happened.

For that reason, until any major revamp of "industrial logic", let the bed (created as wooden 'for Reasons') be represented as a recognisable bed despite the apparent (irreversible/unrecoverable and otherwise unexploitable) transmutation of a small amount of lignin to cotton, or whatever it might be assumed to be.


Well, that's my thoughts, such as they are. But they reign supreme only in my own head (if that!), so I have no objection if anyone thinks differently.
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1880 on: July 14, 2020, 11:38:53 am »

Straw beds from Gnomoria make a lot of sense on a certain level of fortress development. Or at least stone bunk beds. This reliance on wood for one of the very important needs is not dwarfy enough IMO.
Straw isn't an item in the game, is it? At least, it's not a material we really do stuff with in dwarf mode. So I'd assume that the wooden beds have straw mattresses, and if the dwarves sleep on the ground they make "beds" like a dog would by pulling some soft stuff together, whether that's straw or a balled up cloak or whatever's to hand.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1881 on: July 14, 2020, 04:12:25 pm »

Straw beds from Gnomoria make a lot of sense on a certain level of fortress development. Or at least stone bunk beds. This reliance on wood for one of the very important needs is not dwarfy enough IMO.
Straw isn't an item in the game, is it? At least, it's not a material we really do stuff with in dwarf mode. So I'd assume that the wooden beds have straw mattresses, and if the dwarves sleep on the ground they make "beds" like a dog would by pulling some soft stuff together, whether that's straw or a balled up cloak or whatever's to hand.
And what is "dwarfy" anyway? Raising llamas and crying over the soul of a poor, dead goblin before heading off to the tavern to enjoy some fine elven poetry? Seems perfectly reasonable that these guys build their bed frames from wood.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1882 on: July 14, 2020, 04:48:44 pm »

Straw beds from Gnomoria make a lot of sense on a certain level of fortress development. Or at least stone bunk beds. This reliance on wood for one of the very important needs is not dwarfy enough IMO.
Straw isn't an item in the game, is it? At least, it's not a material we really do stuff with in dwarf mode. So I'd assume that the wooden beds have straw mattresses, and if the dwarves sleep on the ground they make "beds" like a dog would by pulling some soft stuff together, whether that's straw or a balled up cloak or whatever's to hand.
And what is "dwarfy" anyway? Raising llamas and crying over the soul of a poor, dead goblin before heading off to the tavern to enjoy some fine elven poetry? Seems perfectly reasonable that these guys build their bed frames from wood.
And from a game perspective, adding the challenge to get wood for something to discourage complete turtling is usually not a bad thing (although it has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread, of course).
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Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1883 on: July 15, 2020, 03:07:00 pm »

Some weapons looks unrealistic. Jewels looks very strange. Not all creatures fit ingame proportions.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1884 on: July 15, 2020, 05:01:44 pm »

Some weapons looks unrealistic. Jewels looks very strange. Not all creatures fit ingame proportions.
Creature size has been discussed several times in this thread. The artist are constrained by a 32*32 pixel limit (with a few pixels of oversize available for the very largest ones), and the smallest ones must still be recognizable, so there is not room for making them follow a strict size hierarchy, in particular if you also want to make them distinct (you could probably achieve a hierarchy if everything was just blobs, and size was measured in number of pixels each blob consisted of). That means that yes, some creatures may be too large compared to some others while also too small compared to others. The aim, as far as I understand it, is to roughly group creatures into small/medium/large/extra large.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1885 on: July 15, 2020, 10:12:08 pm »

Some weapons looks unrealistic. Jewels looks very strange. Not all creatures fit ingame proportions.
Yes. That's how tilesets work. They show you what something is with a graphical icon. Have you played Dwarf Fortress? It involves being able to clearly see where items are, which you wouldn't be able to do if everything was life size. Would be a bit of a blow to Steam sales if the artists inexplicably tried to make life-size models of everything.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 10:16:38 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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JesterHell696

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1886 on: July 16, 2020, 01:36:23 am »

Straw beds from Gnomoria make a lot of sense on a certain level of fortress development. Or at least stone bunk beds. This reliance on wood for one of the very important needs is not dwarfy enough IMO.
Straw isn't an item in the game, is it? At least, it's not a material we really do stuff with in dwarf mode. So I'd assume that the wooden beds have straw mattresses, and if the dwarves sleep on the ground they make "beds" like a dog would by pulling some soft stuff together, whether that's straw or a balled up cloak or whatever's to hand.
And what is "dwarfy" anyway? Raising llamas and crying over the soul of a poor, dead goblin before heading off to the tavern to enjoy some fine elven poetry? Seems perfectly reasonable that these guys build their bed frames from wood.
And from a game perspective, adding the challenge to get wood for something to discourage complete turtling is usually not a bad thing (although it has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread, of course).

Which is a point against it IMHO, I love DF because it is a fantasy world simulator not a arcade game which you "win", having a mechanic work in a specific way just for challenge gets a hell no from me.


Some weapons looks unrealistic. Jewels looks very strange. Not all creatures fit ingame proportions.
Yes. That's how tilesets work. They show you what something is with a graphical icon. Have you played Dwarf Fortress? It involves being able to clearly see where items are, which you wouldn't be able to do if everything was life size. Would be a bit of a blow to Steam sales if the artists inexplicably tried to make life-size models of everything.

Life size might be doable with multi-tile creature and a 4k tileset, I don't think that's going to happen, whould be awesome tho.
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1887 on: July 16, 2020, 04:23:04 am »

Which is a point against it IMHO, I love DF because it is a fantasy world simulator not a arcade game which you "win", having a mechanic work in a specific way just for challenge gets a hell no from me.
Going back to my prior argument, in which I went into Minecraft-equivalence, if you play that in Survival Mode, and create a massive obsidian castle on a whim, perhaps carefully bucketting up magma from the depths (after having made a baker's dozen of buckets, a dozen for magma, one for your quenching water, with sand for casting 'moulds' or just rapidly double-pour) and casting it in place, having is that not better for the soul than using the 'Creative' mode to just have unlimited obsidian blocks in your inventory and plop-plop-plop them down (and insta-smash any misplacements along the way) while effortlessly flying and having no dangers from mobs?

If you would prefer the latter, consider DFHacking your every need into being (and every obstacle out of it). Nothing stops you doing that. I think you could fully form your entire fortress in the initial post-embark pause, fully fledged before any minor has tried to grab the pick from the wagon.


And you can't 'win' DF any easier (if at all) that way. You win if you think you have, and if you are happy to win at a one-person game of Monopoly by taking money from the Bank whenever you feel like it, then that's you.



I think you misunderstand the graphics, issues too, but as this thread is about graphics and their possible tweaks (with perhaps a back-channel to Toady if it seems like the game-engine needs further revamping) I'll leave you with your opinion, even if I think you're on the wrong track.
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Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1888 on: July 16, 2020, 07:14:59 am »

Some weapons looks unrealistic. Jewels looks very strange. Not all creatures fit ingame proportions.
Yes. That's how tilesets work. They show you what something is with a graphical icon. Have you played Dwarf Fortress? It involves being able to clearly see where items are, which you wouldn't be able to do if everything was life size. Would be a bit of a blow to Steam sales if the artists inexplicably tried to make life-size models of everything.
The more issue is design of unrealistic-drawn weapons and too strange jewels. I play DF only with ASCII standard, didn't even change a font.
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evthestrike

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1889 on: July 16, 2020, 09:42:37 am »

Some weapons looks unrealistic. Jewels looks very strange. Not all creatures fit ingame proportions.
Yes. That's how tilesets work. They show you what something is with a graphical icon. Have you played Dwarf Fortress? It involves being able to clearly see where items are, which you wouldn't be able to do if everything was life size. Would be a bit of a blow to Steam sales if the artists inexplicably tried to make life-size models of everything.
The more issue is design of unrealistic-drawn weapons and too strange jewels. I play DF only with ASCII standard, didn't even change a font.

Which weapons are unrealistic? Do you have any ideas about how to change them? What looks unrealistic about the jewels to you? I don't think your feedback is specific enough to be useful.
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