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[Vordak]

How does a wagon cart look like on your rails?

[Rafal99]

I'm not sure if this is an accurate representation. On the image below, the magenta tile goes down a full level, but the yellow tile only goes down a half level. I'm not a game mechanics expert, but I kind of thought objects on ramps counted as being on the bottom of the ramp, not halfway up.

You're basically correct, the solution I've proposed, and vettlingr's appears to be identical, only go to 'half-depth' in those narrow canyon sections. The reason to do this is that it lets you keep the same slope for all ramps, and it simplifies what you're looking at visually.


(...)

Hi
I would like to add my two cents to considerations about half-depth vs full-depth ramps.
I am all for half-depth ramp, firstly because they are easier to parse visually, but also because they seem more physically-consistent, let me show some examples.

1. Consistent vertical position of creature or item standing on ramp.
For game physics, it is most logical to assume that a creature standing on a tile (and with position not determined more precisely), physically counts as standing at the very center of the tile rectangle.
So from the side view:



As you can see with half-height ramp creatures standing at the center of the tile are always at the same height.
While with full-height ramps creature's vertical position depends on the shape of the ramp, while imho it should not.

2. Physics of channel-digging and ramp-building.
Side view:



I don't think a dwarf who is digging a channel is supposed to fill a ground hole on the next tile, but with Full-height ramps apparently it does.

[Meph]

Vordak: very similar to what it looks like now. I painted new sprites, but they are similar in design to what you made for the Meph+Vordak set.

We do want to turn it to fit the track direction, but that hasn't been done yet.

[Manveru Taurënér]

Hi
I would like to add my two cents to considerations about half-depth vs full-depth ramps.
I am all for half-depth ramp, firstly because they are easier to parse visually, but also because they seem more physically-consistent, let me show some examples.

1. Consistent vertical position of creature or item standing on ramp.
For game physics, it is most logical to assume that a creature standing on a tile (and with position not determined more precisely), physically counts as standing at the very center of the tile rectangle.
So from the side view:



As you can see with half-height ramp creatures standing at the center of the tile are always at the same height.
While with full-height ramps creature's vertical position depends on the shape of the ramp, while imho it should not.

2. Physics of channel-digging and ramp-building.
Side view:



I don't think a dwarf who is digging a channel is supposed to fill a ground hole on the next tile, but with Full-height ramps apparently it does.

Seems like a lot of assumptions that are contrary to what's actually happening in the game (creatures moving through tile with a ramp are still at ground level for instance, and can be anywhere inside the tile depending on what they are doing), and there's probably just as many weird cases that'll crop up with displaying them as half-ramps as with full ramps, as neither is a perfect replication of the underlying mechanics. For instance, if one digs into the wall from inside a half-ramp ditch and makes an entrance, door and all, I can't imagine that looking like it makes sense either.

[Uthimienure]

Is it possible to make the stockpile tiles partially transparent so they stand out less?
They completely obscure the underlying terrain as-is, and are distracting.

[PatrikLundell]

Is it possible to make the stockpile tiles partially transparent so they stand out less?
They completely obscure the underlying terrain as-is, and are distracting.

Note that the "underlying terrain" consists of moss/grass, plants, saplings, and mud in addition to the floor itself (and I would assume you've got spatters of various substances, such as blood and vomit as well).

[Meph]

How can stockpiles be distracting? They are static, fully under your own control, and are floor tiles underneath a lot of bins/barrels/items.

[Uthimienure]

Do you have an example of a stockpile that is placed over several different terrains so we can have a look at it?  Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't the empty stockpile graphic completely obscure what's underneath?

After all, a stockpile is simply a "designated area" for storage, not a constructed platform or the like which would cover everything below. This is why I would prefer them partially transparent.

[PatrikLundell]

The Phoebus stockpiles are sufficiently ugly that I don't want to abuse them for sapling maturation suppression... I don't have a problem with them for their intended use, though, in particular since minecart quantum stockpiling generally means I don't need huge stockpiles. Thus, I think I understand Uthimienure's issue, even though I'm not sure the proposed change would be an improvement.

[Mike Mayday]

I'm sorry, but transparency results in something completely unreadable:

[Rekov]

You could make stockpiles like zones, where they are only visible when you are in the menu. This could even be made a setting. Always visible vs. Only in menus.

An alternative going in a completely different direction would be to do something like those construction marking stakes, or those grids of stakes and ropes that archeologists use to mark off their sites. Basically have a little flag in each corner of the stockpile, with the color indicating the type of stockpile.



You would need to work out where to place the stakes, and how many to have along the sides of stockpiles, etc, but it seems easy enough to do. Basically offset the stake sprite to the sides/corner of a tile as needed.

[Uthimienure]

I'm sorry, but transparency results in something completely unreadable:

I think that looks fine, but that's the beauty of the world... everyone has a different way of looking at things 
What happens when it's placed over top of several different terrains, or is that what we're seeing? (It all looks like the same grass to me)

[bloop_bleep]

I'm sorry, but transparency results in something completely unreadable:

But... unreadable how? I like this a lot more, because it makes it clear a "stockpile" is an abstract thing, rather than a physical construction.

[Uthimienure]

You could make stockpiles like zones, where they are only visible when you are in the menu. This could even be made a setting. Always visible vs. Only in menus.

An alternative going in a completely different direction would be to do something like those construction marking stakes, or those grids of stakes and ropes that archeologists use to mark off their sites. Basically have a little flag in each corner of the stockpile, with the color indicating the type of stockpile.



You would need to work out where to place the stakes, and how many to have along the sides of stockpiles, etc, but it seems easy enough to do. Basically offset the stake sprite to the sides/corner of a tile as needed.

I wasn't going to mention zones, because that requires coding changes, and I've read that future work by Toady is going to revamp zones and stockpiles anyway.

With your flags, that's not bad at all... but what happens when you have irregularly shaped stockpiles that flow around stuff... LOTS of flags?

[bloop_bleep]

I would suggest at least having a dotted line run between flags, so the shape of the stockpile is more clear, if we're going in the flag direction.