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[Meph]

Ehm... None of you know any behind the scenes discussions, so let me explain it a bit:

1. Tarn makes all final decisions, we just do what he thinks is best.
2. That being said, he doesn't know much about making pixelart, therefore an actual graphic designer suggests the theme we go with.
3. That designer is not me, it's Mike Mayday.

I mean, that's your call to make of course and it's nice that you have full artistic control over your project, wouldn't want it any other way

It's not my call, not my project, I don't have the artistic control. If I create a sprite that doesn't end up being used, it's wasted time and effort, nor would I get paid. I even volunteered to not get paid till after the release.

If you have a problem with the art style, talk to Kitfox, Mike or Tarn. I can only relay your messages and I'm the only one who comes by on a regular basis to talk to the people in the forum, that hasn't been permanently scared away.

Just see above: one comment is about how amazing it is that grass is just grass and doesn't distract from the gameplay. The next is about how grass should be wild and full of colors and flowers. Two opposite perspectives. Neither is right or wrong by default.

So what do I idiot do? Talk about a compromise, then get attacked for it, then say "ok, let's politely say that those are just opposing views", get attacked for it some more. Thanks. Really helpful, constructive criticism on the actual pixelart.

[ZayZe]

<3 Meph

Frustrating I bet.

Regardless of the style of art. Either way, it looks amazing.

I'm grateful either way. 100%

Everything done is fine for me. Looks clean.

As you said everyone has their own preference. (If you were to make a few different styles people would all go different ways not saying you need to do that, was using it as an example of art taste and variety.)

[Shonai_Dweller]

Thanks for the explanation Meph. I assumed that was the case but, as you say nobody knows and nobody was going out of their way to let anybody know. So I was only letting you know how your short responses were coming across to that one poster (who presumably isn't alone in his/her opinion) who was upset about losing some of the beauty that the game already has. Very reassuring.

[Inarius]

Please let the pro do their job.
I support Meph and Mike and what they are trying to do.
Let's judge when it's over.
For me it's looking fine.

[mko]

If you have a problem with the art style, talk to Kitfox, Mike or Tarn. I can only relay your messages and I'm the only one who comes by on a regular basis to talk to the people in the forum, that hasn't been permanently scared away.

Ouch. I have seen this process also in other places and I am not sure about solutions for that.

(by "this process" I mean "people making some part of the project, but not the main author, scared away from communication channel used by community due to repeated criticism")

[SuperPluck]

And for those really concerned about the beauty of ASCII, well... ASCII is going to be there still

[voliol]

I just want to say that the grass tiles are great, and I’m really stoked. I think most people are, to be honest, and if they’re somewhat like me they take their own ”this is wonderful” for a given, and skip it to get to the ”interesting” criticism part. It’s kind of ridiculous, but I think it’s worth keeping in mind. Keep the good work up

And for those really concerned about the beauty of ASCII, well... ASCII is going to be there still

Related to this, I got a question to kitfox: If they are only posted on Steam Workshop, are edits of the official Mephday/premium graphics okay? If they are, people could alter the graphics to their own preferences and conflicting standpoints like this would be largely dealt with.

[Schmaven]

I suppose it largely goes unsaid, but the pixel art I've seen so far as been great, and I'm looking forward to the release

If they are only posted on Steam Workshop, are edits of the official Mephday/premium graphics okay? If they are, people could alter the graphics to their own preferences and conflicting standpoints like this would be largely dealt with.

Do you mean like a graphics mod that only adds more vibrant blooms but keeps all other graphics the same for example?

[voliol]

If they are only posted on Steam Workshop, are edits of the official Mephday/premium graphics okay? If they are, people could alter the graphics to their own preferences and conflicting standpoints like this would be largely dealt with.

Do you mean like a graphics mod that only adds more vibrant blooms but keeps all other graphics the same for example?

Yeah. I imagine it’s an legal issue which is why the question is directed at Kitfox and not Meph/Mayday.

[therahedwig]

For what it's worth, back when I did the new grasses for stonesense, initially, everyone was super enthusiastic about them. Then when they got into the game, one person went like 'hey, it's kinda hard to see where the plants are now', and then it was just post after post complaining about that. That uh, was kinda really big bummer? And that particularly started with the mountain biome which has all the flowery grasses (heather, cloudberry, cottongrass).

So, I can kind of see the hesitance here?

[socate]

I genuinely don't understand some peoples' issues with this project. We're getting more than we have now, not less. If someone disagrees with the process then they are feel free to make their own tileset or use one of the many that are already available. At the very least least they should realize that their vision for the art style isn't the only one.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I genuinely don't understand some peoples' issues with this project. We're getting more than we have now, not less. If someone disagrees with the process then they are feel free to make their own tileset or use one of the many that are already available. At the very least least they should realize that their vision for the art style isn't the only one.

It's because this isn't a mod, it's the actual graphics of Dwarf Fortress. People want to see this project succeed, because it means the future of the game.

[Meph]

What you must consider is that you are all familiar with the game. I just saw ASCII being called beautiful here, which by the definition of most people is a bit of a stretch. Show Dwarf Fortress vanilla ASCII to 1000 random gamers, and I don't think you will hear that word a lot.

Steam DF should introduce new players to the game, lower the entry barrier. Make it readable at a glance. That's what we have to take into consideration; while the purists that love the original look can keep playing with it! The tilesets, like any other tileset, is an addition, not a replacement.

voliol: Good question and I asked the same at Kitfox about a year ago. It was never answered, I think it got buried a little bit in the discussions we had. I can ask them again.

[Meph]

If units show the equipped armor, and all races share a similar setup of items, the units will end up looking very similar, since a large portion of the sprite would be made up of the helmet, armor, weapon and shield.

So, why not a set for every civ? (Freshly made WIP mock-up, not final, not ingame. )

[Uthimienure]

Those look absolutely awesome!

(but I'm not sure... maybe an ASCII character is more beautiful  )