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[Manveru Taurënér]

By the way, Meph - not really about the tileset, but do you know if there is proper mouse support&interface planned (in paid version only maybe)? Because harcore keyboard controls in 2019 for wide audience, well... 

Depending of course on your definition of proper, yes.
https://www.pcgamer.com/tutorials-and-mouse-support-could-make-dwarf-fortress-on-steam-vastly-easier-to-play/
Also, all fundamental changes to the game like that will be shared between versions, it's only the tileset and music/sounds (and steam workshop) that are limited to the paid version.

[Starver]

(Just been gazumped.)

By the way, Meph - not really about the tileset, but do you know if there is proper mouse support&interface planned (in paid version only maybe)? Because harcore keyboard controls in 2019 for wide audience, well... 

I'm sure I've seen it mentioned here and and another couple of Bay12 threads and also Steam (when I lurked a bit, but unable to reply) that there will be something of additional use for the mouse.

Not sure what can usefully be done, extra. I know I'd not be reaching for the mouse to right-click and start the necessary cascade of options and sub-options and sub-sub-options, etc, until they rejiggle the hotkey menu nesting too (which will probably annoy me for a while, but may be done so each input method matches the structure of the other) as also mentioned - all this as being under Zach's purview, I think it was said, to investigate.

I mean, Meph might be able to clarify better detail, but AIUI it's still way up in the air, so it'll probably change from what's imagined at the moment (even by someone closer to the project) anyway.




(And keyboards aren't particularly hardcore, IMO. Unless you've tabbed-away the hint segment of the screen it tells you what you can press. No worse than a drop-down or context-sensitive menu, given that any context is just as universal to the cursor you've just chosen by following the same hint. But each to their own. The imprecision of the mouse/touch-screen suits some people for things other than pattern-painting, but I'm just more tactile.)

[malvado]

Nice work!

I have to say I'm looking forward to pay and play DF with the graphic you guys are working on, it's a game that has evolved a lot over time and even though I haven't donated that often and hopefully my cash will help a little bit everyone that works with this project :-)

[Meph]

We are currently discussing the worldmap. Since 32x32 is a bit large, the idea is to use 16x16 tiles for it, to show more map at a time.

What is not clear is the style: Should it look like an actual birds-eye representation of a living game world; or rather like the goat-skin parchment map a dwarf would carry around with him?

Due to the information density in DF (biome, plants, constructions, good/evil regions), we can't make anything too sepia/monochrome colored.

What do you guys think?

Simplistic icon-based map: (super wip)


Or rather full-on graphical world view: (super not-done-by-us)


My personal favourite would be something like this, but sadly that's not possible with tileset-based painting and lacks the necessary information due to the lack of color.

[Real_bang]

Full on graphic looks dope but i think it wouldnt work with the tileset, im voting for simplistic map, cause i think thats how maps should look

[ZayZe]

I like the full on graphics.

I think people who get it on steam would welcome graphics like those more. Zeh Casualz

[BearMilitia]

I like the full graphics but I would like to see what your version of full graphics and a further along simple graphics to compare better.

going only on what is there now full graphics looks clear and nice

[voliol]

Doesn't the current adventurer mode use some sepia version of the "true world map" as seen when selecting e.g. site location, to dimulate the adventurer halvung some sort of parchment map. There could be some graphical distinction between the two, with the adventurer one being more "map-like" and uniformely colored.

I do believe a icon-based variant would be best for both of the maps though. Trying to reach for a realistic option won't work as well as, well, then you would need to fit in as many trees in a tile as it actually contains, or the worlds would look really, really tiny.

[CL3AR]

I think the full-on graphics look the best by itself.

[Rekov]

If you can only do one, I would lean toward suggesting full graphic. On the other hand, the simplistic one might make it easier to represent more information. The tiles represent biomes/roads/towns, and the color represents something else, for example.

Figure out all of the different kinds of info that need to be represented first.

It might be easier to have different versions of the world map that show different things, just like you can tab through different views in the Embark screen like relative elevation, cliff height, etc.

Maybe you need a Biome/Nature map and a civilizations/road map. Or whatever. Temperature and rainfall as a map, or as overlays/tints to the tiles that you can toggle.

[CL3AR]

The full-on graphics stuff definitely has that Chrono Trigger world map charm. I imagine it would look like this for a larger land mass.

[Starver]

I like the idea of it being a 'parchment' version, knowing that it is an approximation (the subtle curves and S-bends of rivers/road/boundaries quantized, though, rather than dubiously warped scale of a Mappa Mundi) that is the 'idea' of the world that only in the progrssively zoomed view (then embark) do you get the full detail. Toady-willing (well, you might as well ask!), you might even have the ability to dither the tile positions/same-item-variants upon the parchment (or with suitably sheared transforms for cell-to-cell features) to give a not-obviously-tiled look more like your personal favourite or classic Tolkien maps. With colour 'washes' as sub(-also-dithered-or-stretch-or-skewed)-cells below the 'pen drawn' mountain/tree-clusters, fluvial/lacal/deltaic/littoral boundaries, other landforms, indicators of civilisation/etc.

The more "full-on-graphical" thing looks like it's supposed to be the form, at 1:1scale, a bit like the Mario world map does with the road(s) you progress through between stage 'spots' (though your WIP one that I like also has that feel it's the baasic tiledness, and my 'dithered tile shuffling' idea could be applied equally to that to 'improve' it) with its 'forced perspective'.


In my head I have this procgen method of (consistently, for the same features in a map porthole on the world, regardless of viewport bounds) adding variations to a superset of basic arttwork to make it look like a "There And Back Again" illustration, with all the data one might ask (in the most-zoomed in map, that'd include altitude/slope/biome-membership rendering also) but it might be beyond what you're likely to get as a set of capabilities. In this first Steam-prettified version, at least. But putting it out there as a concept anyway.

[Manveru Taurënér]

Pretty hard to say just based on those, personally I probably lean more towards something like the simplistic icon-based model depending on what the finished version would look, or maybe something in-more in-between? If it'd be possible to somewhat capture the feel of the ascii original that'd be amazing imo, having it sort of feel like you're watching the world from the heavens but with tiny icons for important stoof.

[Cruxador]

The simplistic one looks pretty terrible, even for a WIP the basic decisions there are poor. Definitely go for more full on, although you can go more iconic with some things, like the mountain shading and the waves on the map of the near east.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Full-on graphics looks nice, but your demo is a bit too neat. Real DF worlds (highly populated ones, at least) have big clusters of sites all thrown together. Will detailed graphics like this all fit together or will it be one big mess?