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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 461416 times)

Nelia Hawk

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1830 on: June 26, 2020, 01:14:31 pm »

well they could add a "nursery" zone, that works like a hospital in a way... and babys get dumped in there in beds and dwarfs with the "bring food/water" job go there and feed them... idle dwarfs maybe go there to play with them...maybe has beds and toys as requirement or so... and maybe the babys run around in there and grab the toys to play with.

so they "less militia shields"
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 01:21:17 pm by Nelia Hawk »
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1831 on: June 26, 2020, 01:46:18 pm »

That'd be more for the Suggestions board (or Terrible Suggestions thread, depending on your actual commitment to it), as a non-graphical feature change. Though if it happened, it'd be pretty much (traditional) Discworld Dwarfs as far as genderisation is concerned, so even less reason to differentiate-at-a-glance.

Not that I've got a say, just mentioning.
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Hiul

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1832 on: June 26, 2020, 08:59:22 pm »

its possible for us to modify the graphic ourselves right? or will it be hard code? since if it possible, then at least i can just make  the feminine version for my own, especially for my modified creature.

besides base of my knowledge regarding armor, they are more specifically the unisex one female can wear male armor just fine, so i hope no plate boob or plate bra for them.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1833 on: June 26, 2020, 09:38:10 pm »

its possible for us to modify the graphic ourselves right? or will it be hard code? since if it possible, then at least i can just make  the feminine version for my own, especially for my modified creature.
Everything will be moddable (or at least that's the intention). All the new features added to make this set possible are supposed to be available to modders to make their own sets.

This thread was made for discussions on that:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173473.0
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1834 on: June 27, 2020, 03:02:41 am »

As Shonai_Dweller said, you'll be able to make your own tile sets, but if you base tiles on the Commercial Mephday tiles you should check what the copyright issues are before spreading it, as that set is tied to the Commercial version only. I don't believe there's any issue with modifying those tiles for your private use (assuming, of course, that you've paid for the right to use them).

Note, though, that you can only provide tiles that the underlying code allows for. Given that it clearly allows for the distinction between male and female peacocks, I'd expect the framework to allow for a distinction between different castes of sapient races as well.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1835 on: June 27, 2020, 04:46:22 am »

For what I mean about both face and fitting to reflect gender, this is an example that comes to mind. Not brilliantly obvious (but best illustration I could immediately find) but when collecting equipable items[1] you get armours (or clothing) that you can give to any character, mix-and-match with weapon/tool of your choice (and ring and amulet and 'special' items if/when you have them.

The icon for them is "male" body shape (plump and hearty) but placed on the default female body-shape (more svelt) then it barely changeds in basic design[2] but conforms to the body it applies to. (No armour or worker-uniform gives the "peasant clothes" default, IIRC, rather than underthings. Apart from the cartoonish sexual dimorphism of their cartoon imagery, you can't say they haven't tried to be inclusive. They even feature mutiple skin-colours and hair-styles (and facial hair for males) on a pretty random basis[3].

But that's mostly done with vector-graphics (and vector components that are anchored on a vector wireframe 'skeleton' to walk around the castle, deal with "room problems" and rush into battle, if I'm any judge) where the final result, according to pinch-zoomed level, is quite a lot higher-res than the Steam sprites. And a lot less varying in the minutiae of mix'n'match equipable items (as sets). Being vectorised, the flood-filled skin-tones are trivial, and a female with long pigtails (e.g.) just doesn't render them when the headgear is incompatible (see "Leah" as represented as both Archer and Mage on that link, and if given the platemail from James, her equivalent visor - in the same pointy-bascinet style but of a shape rescaled to fit a female head - leaves no part of her 'normal' imagery unreplaced).

Compared with the ragdoll "Bill"s (including the female ones) in Hill Climb Racing 2, where legs, torso, head, hat and any "equippable item" (the latter two optional) can be mix'n'matched at whim, but no attempt is made to 'blend' the components, drawn to be used as a set of three to five 'theme' items[4], such that you can have a dark-skinned female head on a 'naked' male torso (the "Naked" set actually gives him legs with boxer-shorts) that further clashes with zombie-flesh legs (if that can be seen beneath the ripped trousers that I'm sure are part of the legs). If the head has pigtails/punk-mohican or is a "giant squidhead" and you also equip a hat (which might be a pair of glasses or other headware) then there's also no designed-in adjustment to head or 'hat' to make them not technically look wierd where they mis-mesh and the hat-overlay doesn't fit the head it 'covers'. (Quiff emerging from backward baseball cap's forward end is ok-ish, any hair/headstyle protuding from the space-helmet in various places just looks wrong.) Don't worry about that, though, as the "hat" often comes off in a race (sometimes I did it deliberately, scraping it away by a careful mid-flight rotation on a chosen bit of track, being careful not to hit the head and DNF the race).

...ANYway, neither of these two examples really apply to DF (this side of a vectorised rewrite, which I've never seen mentioned as being on the cards) and the pixel-restraints these 32x32 tiles gives (give or take the odd over-tile exception) gives little scope for fine-tuning and requires hand-finished art (e.g. of greaves of various materials and core racial bodyplans) to cover each eventuality rather than 'mere' procedural adjustment (development time or in-game) to cater for the variety of options involved.

I'm not sure I'd consider further doubling(ish) the workload to genderise every element that might be genderised a good use of my time, if for some strange reason I was drafted to the Mephday team to work on the base sprites and add-ons. I'd rather go with a male/female(/neutered/intersex/whatever-as-required) symbol as ephemeral tile-decoration. I know some character-traits (dead, undead, etc) are being put into 'versions of a character' graphics as distinct resources, and am unsure if I've ever known how they planned to indicate hunger/thirst/etc as applying to them, so I don't know if 'floating tags' is the way they intend to go (next thing: health status bar, eh? ;) ) and so these are just my rambling musings. As usual.


[1] It being one of those Reward Chest games, though up until the point I quit it due to crashing and unplayability on my old tablet I did quite well without ever buying chests/etc, albeit spending far too much time grinding in-game tasks.

[2] Ok, so the female "Tank" armours tended to go to for "Madonna bra" cones, in platemail versions, but it wasn't the "Shield Maiden who is barely wearing more than a plate-mail bikini" trope, or even pasties and g-string, where the comfort and protection can only be minimal to the extreme. Mostly it was tastefully done, if you accept that all the males have beerguts and all the females are models.

[3] I never did notice if children, begat through pairing dwellers and unequipable by anything in their basic child-form until suddenly attaining adult status and size broke or maintained racial modifiers... game limits to population (and throttles to "retry" a child even if the option to "exile" a cast-member was taken, to make room for one prior to the next castle-upgrade) meant that I never bothered to make note of this game-play irrelevent feature.

[4] Purely aesthetic, or otherwise, with as little effect on a race as the paintjob/wheels chsen for a given vehicle, the performance of which just depends upon the vehicle chosen, 'invisible' performance upgrades and up to three 'add on' items (with their own invisible upgrade system, beyond their presence as bolt-ons).
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1836 on: June 27, 2020, 04:59:13 am »

As Shonai_Dweller said, you'll be able to make your own tile sets, but if you base tiles on the Commercial Mephday tiles you should check what the copyright issues are before spreading it, as that set is tied to the Commercial version only. I don't believe there's any issue with modifying those tiles for your private use (assuming, of course, that you've paid for the right to use them).
Should be OK so long as you stick to Steam Workshop and don't post it on the forum.

Of course, that begs the question, how does one (officially) share the tileset with Itch.io users who have paid for the tileset and are therefore entitled to use derivatives of it?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 05:00:47 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Hiul

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1837 on: June 27, 2020, 02:28:59 pm »

yeah dont worry its for private use, i only know how to draw anyway, and i wont dare commercialize it.
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clinodev

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1838 on: June 27, 2020, 06:36:13 pm »

As Shonai_Dweller said, you'll be able to make your own tile sets, but if you base tiles on the Commercial Mephday tiles you should check what the copyright issues are before spreading it, as that set is tied to the Commercial version only. I don't believe there's any issue with modifying those tiles for your private use (assuming, of course, that you've paid for the right to use them).
Should be OK so long as you stick to Steam Workshop and don't post it on the forum.

Of course, that begs the question, how does one (officially) share the tileset with Itch.io users who have paid for the tileset and are therefore entitled to use derivatives of it?

The current plan is that itch.io users get Steam keys, specifically for that reason.
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MiguelT

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1839 on: June 29, 2020, 09:32:02 pm »

Ptw.
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1840 on: June 30, 2020, 07:40:52 pm »

@Meph and Mayday

You have been less active on this thread as of lately, how come? The work doesn't seem to have stopped judging by the devlogs, and the comments here haven't ceased either. Whether to reply is up to your discretion, of course, but it would be nice with an update on the situation if anything has changed.

Mike Mayday

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1841 on: July 01, 2020, 03:24:45 am »

Hello!
Currently I'm just doing lots and lots of creatures, hoping to finish the basic set of 272 within the next couple of days. Patrick is waiting for some more of my sprites to base his further work on, so we're in a bit of a lull.
I'm not participating in the forum discussions because I have a limited amount of time that I'd rather spend actually making sprites - as long as I have no doubts about what I'm doing, which is the case with creatures. When we get back to more complex problems I'll be sure to post for feedback again.


« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 03:34:24 am by Mike Mayday »
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Dishmab

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1842 on: July 02, 2020, 03:00:59 am »

is that a gray langur under the koala? thanks for the sprites to look at!
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1843 on: July 02, 2020, 07:04:27 am »

These are great, thanks Mike :)

Spoiler: My guesses (click to show/hide)

Mike Mayday

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1844 on: July 02, 2020, 12:16:31 pm »

Daaaaaamn, voliol, I* ALMOST got a perfect score :D
The last one is supposed to be an otter, all the other ones were spot on!
EDIT: Oh no, wait, that's a porcupine, not an echidna, as those have a much longer nose.

*or you, depending on how you look at it, but the point here is to make sure they're readable rather than checking your ability to discern them ;)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 01:14:12 pm by Mike Mayday »
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