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[Cruxador]

maybe they should change how this wall/floor stuff work... and either make walls not count as floors the next z level (but guess gets a mess with pathing with how walls/floors work like in that picture) so you have to build ALL floors yourself.

If this was implemented you'd have walls without tops, and dwarves would fall into the walls. I hardly think having to deconstruct your walls to get the dwarves out because they fell in can be considered an improvement over the current system.

or make it so you can construct stuff on self build floors (that probably less a hassle to "allow" in the game. i think df hack has something that "ignores constructions" or such... so you can build walls on buidl floros(i think). pretty sure i seen that in some pack)

Unless I'm mistaken, this would annihilate the material used for the floor since walls occupy the same spot in the tile. Making this not occur would increase the data that DF stores per tile.

[Meph]

There are no plans to change anything floor/wall related in terms of gameplay.

[Starver]

(Just pointing at my footnote [2], in my prior post, @Crux/etc. But also beyond the scope of your thread, @Meph, as well, to which I want to explicitly apologise, and the last non-footnote para in that same post was also meant to be this sort apology (but better) and also nudge us back, but I think I edited that aspect out, too much.)

[FrankieSmileShow]

Hello! So I just saw the new assets for the first time, and I think it looks great! One thing I brought up in the discord chat is about the workshop assets, which somebody said were a bit contentious?


The graphical elements on the back wall of the forge workshop here, to the right - looking at the screenshot, I was wondering if the hearth, bellows and tools are intended to only appear if the tiles above the workshop are impassable? Like, a contextual sprite to add a bit more detail if there is room for it. Is that the plan? I thought it might be, since the other workshops visible in that screenshots had no such "wall elements" and also had no walls around them.
If that is the plan, I think its a great idea! If this isn't the plan, well, consider that a suggestion!
You could even add more of these contextual assets to the side walls if you give them a steeper perspective, made a quick mockup below.


There could be some drawbacks to that, it could give players the false impression that surrounding a workshop with walls makes it "better", because of the visual feedback for it? I think that would be a pretty minor issue though.

[Rekov]

I know a while back you guys still weren't sure how color was going to change. Whether things would still use colors from the standard set of sixteen values, or maybe from the RAW defined color tokens.

Whatever you guys end up going with though, I sure hope that we end up with an orange that is distinct from red and yellow, and a purple that is distinct from magenta.

[MoltenIdol]

Hello! So I just saw the new assets for the first time, and I think it looks great! One thing I brought up in the discord chat is about the workshop assets, which somebody said were a bit contentious?


The graphical elements on the back wall of the forge workshop here, to the right - looking at the screenshot, I was wondering if the hearth, bellows and tools are intended to only appear if the tiles above the workshop are impassable? Like, a contextual sprite to add a bit more detail if there is room for it. Is that the plan? I thought it might be, since the other workshops visible in that screenshots had no such "wall elements" and also had no walls around them.
If that is the plan, I think its a great idea! If this isn't the plan, well, consider that a suggestion!
You could even add more of these contextual assets to the side walls if you give them a steeper perspective, made a quick mockup below.


There could be some drawbacks to that, it could give players the false impression that surrounding a workshop with walls makes it "better", because of the visual feedback for it? I think that would be a pretty minor issue though.

They answered this on a page way back

They are not going with the wall elements.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Are "carved" minetracks meant to be grooves carved into the floor rather than rails placed on top of the floor (as I suppose constructed ones are)? The pic from today's devblog looks like the latter.

(I have no idea if that works practically, but if not, what are they "carving"? Maybe they're lowering the whole corridor leaving just the shape of minecart tracks...).

[clinodev]

We had the discussion a few pages back about medieval vs. DF minecarts, and how the two need not ever necessarily meet, but the "track" part of the medieval/renaissance system actually was just a groove (or a gap between boards,) to guide a blunt iron pin, which fits well with the idea of carving of minecart tracks into the stone. It's obviously not what the art shows, of course, so pic and comment only added for interest.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(From DE RE METALLICA)

[Shonai_Dweller]

So (question for artists) is this Toady's view of what a "carved" minecart track is, or is the art just "wrong"? (Or is this perhaps a lighting issue and that is actually supposed to be a groove). It's pretty hard to fathom honestly.

[Rekov]

I think the difficulty here is making the art match functional mechanics, and also be sufficiently recognizable.

I don't think medieval mine-cart "tracks" are going to work just because 99% of people won't get what they are.

Mechanically, carved vs. constructed tracks have to be able to connect seamlessly. But logically, if you're carving some tracks into the floor, and building some tracks above the floor, they're going to be at slightly different elevations.

I think what the artists have done looks fine. The art represents the mechanics (seamless tracks), not the real world logic, and that's actually more important in this case.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think the difficulty here is making the art match functional mechanics, and also be sufficiently recognizable.

I don't think medieval mine-cart "tracks" are going to work just because 99% of people won't get what they are.

Mechanically, carved vs. constructed tracks have to be able to connect seamlessly. But logically, if you're carving some tracks into the floor, and building some tracks above the floor, they're going to be at slightly different elevations.

I think what the artists have done looks fine. The art represents the mechanics (seamless tracks), not the real world logic, and that's actually more important in this case.

Tiny ramps between carved and placed tracks? It's not a great leap is it?

Of all the complex problems graphical Dwarf Fortress presents such as procedurally generated beasts and weird trees, to fail at "carved track" is surprising.

[Starver]

I always saw them more like cart ruts, but definitely deliberate.

(Those may have formed through habituation, such as Sunken Lanes may be for a whole horse/cart-width, being perpetuated once established by the sum total of the initial choices of unconfined travel across the landscape. Natural weathering over the centuries may then have significantly exagerated the features beyond the usable tramways of yore, by rainwater being also encouraged to travel the self-same paths, or just edge-erosion by scouring and eddies being disproprtionate to the 'untouched' rock.)

Carved ones obviously differ from constructed ones in several ways, but I see no reason for them not to blend well (or just skim over the differences).


How does any if this help our artists? Not sure.

[bloop_bleep]

When dwarves build a minecart track, they first carve out the floor and then build the track on top? Problem solved.

[Enemy post]

I was thinking about making tiles in advance for Primal, so I can have them ready for the Steam version. How much variation is normal for creatures in the new tileset?

I know castes can vary, but do animals typically have dead, war/hunting trained, and/or undead tile variants?

[Shonai_Dweller]

When dwarves build a minecart track, they first carve out the floor and then build the track on top? Problem solved.

It's not a problem at all. To accept this art, yes, is to say the dwarves carved the entire floor leaving tracks sticking upwards. Which is kind of dorfy so works OK, even if the floor level looks a little too perfect. All I wondered is if that's what Tarn actually thinks of them as being.

(They wouldn't build anything on top though of course, that's a constructed minecart track.)