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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 455909 times)

Sasquatch

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1680 on: May 13, 2020, 07:22:22 pm »

For what it's worth, I'd like to backup Deergirl's opinion that the colors are too bright/cheery. I realize that's a popular look based on the tilesets/color schemes I see people using on YouTube. Will there be a way to do custom colors in steam version like we can on classic? I prefer a more muted look too.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1681 on: May 13, 2020, 07:32:28 pm »

For what it's worth, I'd like to backup Deergirl's opinion that the colors are too bright/cheery. I realize that's a popular look based on the tilesets/color schemes I see people using on YouTube. Will there be a way to do custom colors in steam version like we can on classic? I prefer a more muted look too.
Customization won't be taken out of the game, it will always be moddable. Only difference is that all of the new stuff being added to make this tileset possible will be available for other tileset makers without having to resort to TWBT and such.

This thread is mainly for discussions on that:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173473.0
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Sasquatch

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1682 on: May 13, 2020, 07:46:13 pm »

For what it's worth, I'd like to backup Deergirl's opinion that the colors are too bright/cheery. I realize that's a popular look based on the tilesets/color schemes I see people using on YouTube. Will there be a way to do custom colors in steam version like we can on classic? I prefer a more muted look too.
Customization won't be taken out of the game, it will always be moddable. Only difference is that all of the new stuff being added to make this tileset possible will be available for other tileset makers without having to resort to TWBT and such.

This thread is mainly for discussions on that:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173473.0

That will be awesome! Will be nice, not having to switch out tileset and display mode, to play Adv. mode.
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Bumber

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1683 on: May 13, 2020, 08:02:08 pm »

not sure if ya can do particles... but maybe add some particles going up from the ground at them areas on the worldmap or such...some colorfull ones for good (white, yellow, green, blue) and maybe darker evil ones (red/black/purple?) or maybe ravens or bats flying over the evil area or such... colorfull parrots flying over good areas? like such worldmap deco stuff.

There could be music notes and such for the various sphere biomes once the magic arc happens.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1684 on: May 14, 2020, 03:50:53 am »

not sure if ya can do particles... but maybe add some particles going up from the ground at them areas on the worldmap or such...some colorfull ones for good (white, yellow, green, blue) and maybe darker evil ones (red/black/purple?) or maybe ravens or bats flying over the evil area or such... colorfull parrots flying over good areas? like such worldmap deco stuff.

There could be music notes and such for the various sphere biomes once the magic arc happens.
There's still the size problem of 16*16. I guess transparent stuff on top might work, though. A possible alternative would be a zoom function where you'd have larger tiles (and thus saw a smaller area), but that doubles the number of world tile images, so I'd consider that to be a possible future expansion.
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1685 on: May 14, 2020, 09:33:58 am »

Would be cool if instead of the game's current "there's mountains here" field of tiles, there was something that represented mountains according to their contour and elevation, which can be quite dramatic.

Yeah, good/evil isn't done yet.

not sure if ya can do particles... but maybe add some particles going up from the ground at them areas on the worldmap or such...some colorfull ones for good (white, yellow, green, blue) and maybe darker evil ones (red/black/purple?) or maybe ravens or bats flying over the evil area or such... colorfull parrots flying over good areas? like such worldmap deco stuff.
(one thing that comes to my mind is the particles the game "rise to ruins" does with their corruption areas) (that game does pretty good pixel rain too, with puddles and dripping down roofs and such)
https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/256721713/movie480.webm?t=1588368685
at 0.40 in the video.
When you're assigning meanings like good and evil, real life moral concerns ought to be considered. For one thing, colors don't have the same meaning everywhere, but for another, assigning direct moral meaning to real life animals demonizes them unfairly. Ravens are associated with battlefields because they scavenge, but this doesn't make them evil creatures; they are not any more likely to be assholes than a parrot is, and yet you deem the parrot a good creature. Bats are most definitely good creatures, in the sense that they are beneficial, because they kill huge numbers of pests, including mosquitos which kill more people per year than any other animal (depending on how you do your numbers, possibly even more than humans). Having ravens around, which like to play and do all kinds of things, if anything increases the whimsy and fun of the area. A high population of bats is a good and beneficial thing, reducing deaths under normal conditions (coronavirus demonization aside – it's not like they meant for humans to trap them, take them to market, and catch it off of them, and unlike the humans who spread it, they can't be expected to have known better) so both of these animals basically convey the opposite of what goes down in an evil zone.

For what it's worth, I'd like to backup Deergirl's opinion that the colors are too bright/cheery. I realize that's a popular look based on the tilesets/color schemes I see people using on YouTube. Will there be a way to do custom colors in steam version like we can on classic? I prefer a more muted look too.
Customization won't be taken out of the game, it will always be moddable. Only difference is that all of the new stuff being added to make this tileset possible will be available for other tileset makers without having to resort to TWBT and such.

This thread is mainly for discussions on that:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173473.0
Although this is true, it's also not true. ASCII will work exactly as it did, but the new sprites will have only part of them dynamically recolorable. In fact, to the best of my knowledge no specifically recolorable content has been shown thus far; they seem to be using a workflow where they do it "wrong" first and then wait to make it recolorable until after. Naturally, Meph and Mike can correct me if this is a false deduction, but it's consistent with what they've shown so far and isn't contradicted by anything they've said while discussing the sprites.

This means that to update colors across the board, you'll have to do a not insignificant process of going through all sprite images, applying a darkening or other layer, making touchups as needed, or possibly even recoloring tons of stuff manually if you can't figure out the math to make all of them do what you want.

I imagine the first person to do this and make a good quality darker version of the base tileset will have the most subscribed mod on the Steam workshop for at least a few years.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 10:53:36 am by Cruxador »
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1686 on: May 14, 2020, 11:22:39 am »

Would be cool if instead of the game's current "there's mountains here" field of tiles, there was something that represented mountains according to their contour and elevation, which can be quite dramatic.

Preeetty sure that model has been meddled with to make the mountains pop more/had its z-axis stretched. Having walked over a few mountains in-game, their slopes are generally pretty gentle. That said, it would be cool to have proceedually generated tiles for memorable peaks, but I think we can both agree it is outside of the scope of this project.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1687 on: May 14, 2020, 11:32:50 am »

If it's animated and moves fast enough, I don't think it would have to fit within a 16x16 tile, or be transparent. I mean, those clouds are pretty big, spanning several tiles. They move slowly, so don't get out of the way quickly, but they are partially transparent so you can see what's underneath them. If a sprite moves quickly and doesn't have too many instances of it on screen at a time, it would be okay too, I think.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1688 on: May 14, 2020, 12:18:10 pm »

If it's animated and moves fast enough, I don't think it would have to fit within a 16x16 tile, or be transparent. I mean, those clouds are pretty big, spanning several tiles. They move slowly, so don't get out of the way quickly, but they are partially transparent so you can see what's underneath them. If a sprite moves quickly and doesn't have too many instances of it on screen at a time, it would be okay too, I think.
If you're referring to the parrot etc. (disregarding their ecological niches), the clouds mocked up probably wouldn't respect biomes/parameters (they'd probably pass over rain forest as often as over desert, which is fine for a decoration), while evilness/savagery [type] indicators (only ones until Myth & Magic, when spheres are opened up) should do so, and a corrupting tower initially corrupts only its own tile, so I think it actually has to fit.
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Uthimienure

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1689 on: May 14, 2020, 07:41:16 pm »

I'm guessing this would already be planned because it's pretty obvious, but haven't seen it mentioned yet.

- Having different graphics for the top of a constructed wall and a constructed floor. It would make building above ground a bit less troublesome.
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1690 on: May 14, 2020, 07:50:14 pm »

I'm guessing this would already be planned because it's pretty obvious, but haven't seen it mentioned yet.

- Having different graphics for the top of a constructed wall and a constructed floor. It would make building above ground a bit less troublesome.
For aesthetic reasons, I would want this difference to be either negligible or nonexistent.
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bloop_bleep

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1691 on: May 14, 2020, 09:27:11 pm »

Yeah, let's not do that. Otherwise all the pillars and room dividers on the level below would be showing up in the floor above, and possibly not aligning with the pillars and room dividers on the level above. Bleh.
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Uthimienure

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1692 on: May 14, 2020, 09:54:29 pm »

Good points.  I guess what would be better is if the gap (that we can't see) around the upper floor of a tower and its wall (if you forget to build floor over the wall) wasn't there. But that's beyond scope of this graphics thread, and should be a suggestion instead, yeah, I know, I know.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1693 on: May 15, 2020, 12:22:58 am »

*something* *something* tile edges against air *something* *something* differs if wall-top or floor *something *something* but disappears where it borders on other wt/f..?

(Would depend on graphic used anyway, but I could see a "cobblestone" design, for constructed-stone/whatever, edging with 1px hard edge colour, fingering into the edge-cobble gaps where not effectively kerning into adjacent cobbles/etc. Such a floor-edge and an equivalent wall-top edge could be subtly different. Though this all needs to be re-examined for each and every actual graphic that might be used for each purpose, so not a small task to create such distinct edge-masks for each and every one.)
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Schmaven

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1694 on: May 15, 2020, 04:45:23 am »

Rather than change the look of the completed construction, have constructions flash green or some color when you're designating where to build a wall, like they do when designating to remove constructions.  You'd still have to go through the trouble of pressing b C W, but you wouldn't have to move the segment over tiles to see if you can build it there or not. 

For my surface constructions, I make a 10 x 10 wall or floor designation and scroll that around to show which tiles already have floor and which do not.  It is a bit of a hassle, but I do like having the tops of walls (essentially treated as floors) and the floor tiles to look the same.  Although I could easily build a floor on top of the wall if it looked different, so it wouldn't create an impossible situation if they did have different looks.
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