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[Thoth1972]

Something I have always wanted in any sim or world building game is for it to actually follow the laws of world building in our universe. how much more real would it feel if the world wasn't a mishmosh of plopped down mountains and plains, but the geological result of a simulated crust, just like our worlds! This is not to say necessarily these plates have to act the same way earth does, mars for example is thought to have only two tectonic plates moving much slower than earth's, which is why you get mega volcanoes like olympus mons.

Now I know the current system isn't exactly a "mishmosh", what with things like the mesh system and so forth. I also know it might be really difficult to introduce active movement of landmasses on the grid system. But that doesn't necessarily have to be the way you would simulate plate tectonics! for example, you could simulate a series of randomized fault lines and magma hot spots across the map that interact with each other to create mountains or canyons or trenches and so forth based on plate density. Because after all you're only simulating a few thousand years of history tops so you wouldn't NEED to see any movement across your history - all that happens on a much larger timescale.

Unless it was possible to introduce active movement, cuz then shit would really cook up. Imagine if there was a slider for things like that! Number of Tectonic Plates, Speed of Tectonic Plates, Max plate density vs Min plate density! You could have mars type worlds with giant volcanoes and huuuuge canyons, only ventured into by the bravest adventurers and darkest denizens. You could have highly chaotic earthquake prone worlds where things move quickly enough for civilizations to be split in half over a few generations!

Think about how this would mesh with other properties of world gen like erosion and rain curtains(I think its called something else, rain shadow maybe? the affect of mountains on weather.) you could have whole systems like the Rockies v the Appalachians realistically simulated! I think it would be really cool but I'm also just opening up a dialogue what does everybody else think?

Think about how this would mesh with other aspects of the upcoming map rewrite! Square worlds, cylinder worlds, other shaped worlds! all with tectonics! it doesn't have to be a sphere! It shouldn't be a sphere!

[PatrikLundell]

I think the consequences of plate tectonics would be a nice thing, and at least some of it is intended at some time (earth quakes, volcano eruptions). However, it should also be noted that the upcoming Myth & Magic will open up the field for completely different kinds of world and "dwarves", so some kind of realistic simulation of the results of real world processes will only be applicable to a subset of the worlds. I'm not sure mountain range formation following somewhat realistic processes really add much to the game, though (it would be cool, but I don't think it would affect game play).

I can easily imagine a somewhat realistic world where the game takes place in the X:ths world, with each previous age of civilization being destroyed by gigantic lava flows (the Deccan traps, and the similar Siberian features), or super volcano eruptions (ash mostly, but smothering everything and very thick "near" the eruption), enormous tsunamis (like the one that flushed over what's now Scotland due to a land slide off the Norwegian continental shelf), and the (Atlantis) sudden submerge of the civilized world, and we can add the Deluge as well (the breach of the Bosporus, or the much earlier breach of the Atlantic into the Mediterranean basin), etc. Depending on the time scales, the denizens of previous ages may not have much in common with the played "dwarves" (a trilobite civ, a later one based on salamander type creatures, followed (with a large gap of nothing in between each) by reptilian and dinosaurian ones, leading to a mammalian one, for instance (with a corresponding weirdness to any surviving artifacts).

And I believe you're thinking of Orographic Precipitation for the rain shadow thingie.

One of the things that's being on the table to be used by the rewritten map framework is a more varied set of volcano types.

[Azerty]

Just imagine: volcanism, mountain-making, geysers, hot springs and quakes simulated at once.

[scourge728]

+1

[Thoth1972]

Interesting... I certainly agree that there ought to be magical means through which a world can be created, formed, or adapted. Look at Arda(Middle Earth), for example. Rather unrealistic from a tectonic perspective, but that's because Middle Earth wasn't formed by plate tectonics, it was formed by Ilúvatar, and eventually he drastically changed it to go from flat to round during the second age changing the face of the world in many ways. That kinda thing would be awesome, and I've seen you talking about it in some of the FOTF.

I guess the only thing that really matters to me personally that drove me in this direction is for there to be a reason why the world is the way it is. If the world is formed by mountains gods and plains goddesses and river demons all vying for power and control in the raw vitriolic energy spheres that predate the spontaneous creation of the world, that'd be dope.

Now plate-tectonic-y type things would be really dope in my personal opinion, because I like having a foundation for geological processes that are drawn upon. It feels nicer to me to know(and potentially easier to implement) things that have demonstrably happened in a universe far beyond our ability to comprehend or fully replicate and use those processes as a well. That's not to say other methods aren't valid or cool I just think I am so amazed by these processes in real life it would be absolutely mindblowing to watch them recreated on this scale.

[therahedwig]

Toady has mentioned they still want to add Plate Techtonics, but they never mentioned when they would do it. The upcoming map rewrite could maybe be a good place to do it, even though it is also where things like 'world trees', 'giant eyeballs from the fallen body of a primordial god' and 'multi-planar worlds' are going to be introduced. So who knows, :p

[Ninjabread]

Here's a thing that might temporarily sate your thirst for simulated tectonics, and could potentially be a decent source of ideas for Toady if he plans on adding in this stuff

[PatrikLundell]

I'd recommend against cramming plate tectonics into the map rewrite beyond trying to ensure it will fit in (Prepared for, but not implemented). The Myth & Magic release is already bursting at the seams with quite a few save game breaking structural rewrites (not the mention the caravan of trucks loaded with the demands for the actual contents), so I'd say anything that isn't required should be delayed until the structural work and the basic Myth & Magic is in to keep the Big Wait shorter than 5 years.

[compsognathus]

Good idea Plate Tectonics and Continental Drift.


earthquakes that change territories, volcanoes that create islands ...

Think about how this would mesh with other aspects of the upcoming map rewrite! Square worlds, cylinder worlds, other shaped worlds! all with tectonics! it doesn't have to be a sphere! It shouldn't be a sphere!

emulating a sphere is not difficult

[therahedwig]

I'd recommend against cramming plate tectonics into the map rewrite beyond trying to ensure it will fit in (Prepared for, but not implemented). The Myth & Magic release is already bursting at the seams with quite a few save game breaking structural rewrites (not the mention the caravan of trucks loaded with the demands for the actual contents), so I'd say anything that isn't required should be delayed until the structural work and the basic Myth & Magic is in to keep the Big Wait shorter than 5 years.

Well, none of us has any control over what Toady will do, and they have said they do want to get a myth/magic release as soon as possible into people's hands so I wouldn't worry too much about him adding too much to the first release. (Though a map rewrite would be cool for many different reasons... :>)

[compsognathus]

I just found this, it's much more precise.

[PatrikLundell]

Addressing the sphere tangent: Toady has already said he won't do a sphere due to the impossibility of representing a sphere properly with an orthogonal grid system, while cylinders and torii (a torus can't be represented properly either, but the distortions are a lot smaller, and the player doesn't even have to know which direction connects the torus and which one represents its girth) aren't out of the question.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I'd recommend against cramming plate tectonics into the map rewrite beyond trying to ensure it will fit in (Prepared for, but not implemented). The Myth & Magic release is already bursting at the seams with quite a few save game breaking structural rewrites (not the mention the caravan of trucks loaded with the demands for the actual contents), so I'd say anything that isn't required should be delayed until the structural work and the basic Myth & Magic is in to keep the Big Wait shorter than 5 years.

Well, none of us has any control over what Toady will do, and they have said they do want to get a myth/magic release as soon as possible into people's hands so I wouldn't worry too much about him adding too much to the first release. (Though a map rewrite would be cool for many different reasons... :>)

Well, just a couple of days ago he said it would be the longest Wait yet. So make of that what you will (biggest so far was a little over 2 years). Of course, Toady's terrible at time predictions...

It's going to be one of the longest waits for a release due to the core changes that must be made to get even the basic features to work.

[thompson]

I'd recommend against cramming plate tectonics into the map rewrite beyond trying to ensure it will fit in (Prepared for, but not implemented). The Myth & Magic release is already bursting at the seams with quite a few save game breaking structural rewrites (not the mention the caravan of trucks loaded with the demands for the actual contents), so I'd say anything that isn't required should be delayed until the structural work and the basic Myth & Magic is in to keep the Big Wait shorter than 5 years.

Well, none of us has any control over what Toady will do, and they have said they do want to get a myth/magic release as soon as possible into people's hands so I wouldn't worry too much about him adding too much to the first release. (Though a map rewrite would be cool for many different reasons... :>)

Well, just a couple of days ago he said it would be the longest Wait yet. So make of that what you will (biggest so far was a little over 2 years). Of course, Toady's terrible at time predictions...

It's going to be one of the longest waits for a release due to the core changes that must be made to get even the basic features to work.

Yes, but when was the last time a programmer underestimated the time needed for a project?

[GoblinCookie]

Plate tectonics is mostly needed in reverse.  We need it to properly located where volcanoes (and earthquakes once they are in) will be in a non-random fashion. 

It might be a good idea to go backwards from the map to the plate tectonics, we just take the generated map and then calculate where the plate fault-lines (what matters) are going to be given the map we have.  Then we add in a line of volcanoes along the plate tectonic lines, which can then erupt causing !FUN!.