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[ShinQuickMan]

Overall, I'm largely ambivalent, trending to concern. While not at all as certain as to the fate awaiting DF, I do understand much of Blind Wolf's skepticism, and share some of it as well (especially when it comes to deals with publishers).

Well, obvious upside includes an influx new players (and community members), many of which will be paying up front.

But, see, I'm worried what sort of precedent this sets for the current donors. As soon as there's a price tag, there will be those who will not be as willing to give as they have already. These players will undoubtedly compare what they gave to what's being sold, and, like any consumers, determine if they've got their value's worth or not, and whether its still worthwhile to continue such donations. For DF to remain sustainable longterm, there will both have to be enough buyers, and for an uncertain amount of donors to not change their donation habit negatively.

I'm also unnerved as to how this will affect roguelike development as a whole. More specifically, whether this will continue the trend of other such passion projects to become products. Dwarf Fortress before was, in my eyes, one of few sturdy pillars standing against corporate expansion in such niche gaming. Now that its got a publisher for the purpose of monetization (even if in limited respects), that can no longer be said to be true.
 
We can only wait and see if this change is for the better. It's a profound change. I don't envy the Adams brothers their decision, nor blame them, given their circumstances. I just hope they haven't unintentionally let out the demons on this one...

EDIT: As a less gloomy aside, I'm at least a bit mollified that prominent Bay12 regulars like Meph are involved.

[Lich180]

 
We can only wait and see if this change is for the better. It's a profound change. I don't envy the Adams brothers their decision, nor blame them, given their circumstances. I just hope they haven't unintentionally let out the demons on this one...

EDIT: As a less gloomy aside, I'm at least a bit mollified that prominent Bay12 regulars like Meph are involved.

I think this was inevitable, and has been done in a very careful manner. It's not a light decision to make, and seems like the Adams brothers are doing it for good reasons. Subsiding on donations wasn't going to remain feasible forever, after all.

I think it's is a good decision, overall, even though there's concern about "corporate interests" interfering. Minecraft has done perfectly well without Microsoft breathing down their neck, after all.

[Meph]

EDIT: As a less gloomy aside, I'm at least a bit mollified that prominent Bay12 regulars like Meph are involved.

That's flattering.

[George_Chickens]

This is a little concerning. Hopefully it doesn't split the modding community between forum and workshop. More importantly, I really hope Toady One gets the financial stability he needs.

[Evillee]

Overall, I'm largely ambivalent, trending to concern. While not at all as certain as to the fate awaiting DF, I do understand much of Blind Wolf's skepticism, and share some of it as well (especially when it comes to deals with publishers).

Well, obvious upside includes an influx new players (and community members), many of which will be paying up front.

But, see, I'm worried what sort of precedent this sets for the current donors. As soon as there's a price tag, there will be those who will not be as willing to give as they have already. These players will undoubtedly compare what they gave to what's being sold, and, like any consumers, determine if they've got their value's worth or not, and whether its still worthwhile to continue such donations. For DF to remain sustainable longterm, there will both have to be enough buyers, and for an uncertain amount of donors to not change their donation habit negatively.

I'm also unnerved as to how this will affect roguelike development as a whole. More specifically, whether this will continue the trend of other such passion projects to become products. Dwarf Fortress before was, in my eyes, one of few sturdy pillars standing against corporate expansion in such niche gaming. Now that its got a publisher for the purpose of monetization (even if in limited respects), that can no longer be said to be true.
 
We can only wait and see if this change is for the better. It's a profound change. I don't envy the Adams brothers their decision, nor blame them, given their circumstances. I just hope they haven't unintentionally let out the demons on this one...

EDIT: As a less gloomy aside, I'm at least a bit mollified that prominent Bay12 regulars like Meph are involved.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about donations, it's quite possible some won't donate anymore after buying the game, and I heard some chatter over on reddit about whether or not long time donators will get steam keys.(Not that that part matters much)

This is a little concerning. Hopefully it doesn't split the modding community between forum and workshop. More importantly, I really hope Toady One gets the financial stability he needs.

I hope so too. However the experienced modders will all be from the forum, and the workshop sounds like it would be easy to use, so I doubt there would be much of a divide. If anything, it would just be a few people who don't use/like steam keeping their stuff bay12 exclusive. There would be a divide at first, sure, but I think it would even out after awhile.

[DG]

It's not an announcement I wanted to hear. It has disappointed me, and I'm also a little disappointed at my own disappointment but I won't deny it. I'm somewhat reassured to know that the Adams brothers have proven over the years that they aren't stupid and Tarn is readily willing to back out of things if they turn out to be mistakes rather than double down on them.

I know that my misgivings come from selfishness. I don't gain a thing from this other than a reassurance that it won't affect the status quo. Hopefully it brings in more cash for them, they do deserve it and I won't begrudge them that. In 5 to 10 years when this proves to have been a great idea I'll be happy to put my misgivings aside.

Edit: I've now read the announcements and see that it's not something that they wanted to do, instead it's been forced on them by financial insecurity mainly due to health concerns. I feel for them and wish they didn't have to worry about it, but I now know that they have a heavy reason for it and some of my misgivings are gone.

[frightlever]

My issue is that the game will become pay-only and be unduly influenced by its publisher.

But the game is still free and the publisher doesn't tell Toady what to do. (?)

I suppose modders could also publish their tilesets on Steam Workshop as well as here?

Yes. It's entirely possible to make, for example a 16x16 tileset based on Phoebus or Spacefox (as long as you have their permission) and use it.

Of course neither Phoebus or Spacefox are going to be getting paid directly for that, though I've absolutely donated to Steam modders, particularly Kenshi ones, in the past. You have a fairly unique viewpoint on this, is what I'm saying but maybe other modders will find space at the trough.

It's also naive to say Kitfox is eight people. Next year they could be forty and the year after that sold to THQ Nordic. What's their ownership structure? Are you even aware of what it is? If it was me I'd hesitate to defend a private company I have no stake in. Or maybe you do have a stake in it now, which should really be disclosed if you're going to be making statements about their intent.

I haven't done much digging but I see they have at least two investors. What control do you have over them when you're talking about the future intent of Kitbox as a publisher?

https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/98642-35

I dunno. I want this to turn out well for DF, but I really think you should be more cautious about your comments, if only to reduce hype and cover your own backside.

[Bumber]

I wonder how automatic Steam updating will affect keybindings, etc.

Currently, old configuration files can have issues when new features get added. Maybe they'll get improved to automatically have the new lines added?

[frightlever]

I wonder how automatic Steam updating will affect keybindings, etc.

Currently, old configuration files can have issues when new features get added. Maybe they'll get improved to automatically have the new lines added?

Last few times I played DF I had some custom edited RAWs for certain animals, and Perfect World profiles and so forth that I consistently used. I would guess that you could create your OWN mod and subscribe to that in order to use your own edited config files. That should keep you right for MOST updates. Dunno, but it could be interesting.

[Inarius]

Well, i think i can summarize what "bothers" me; of course it's from a very selfish point of view.

The two brothers do this, as it was said, because of health & money reasons. So i wasn't for the game, or for the well being of the game.
So the real question is "would they have done this if they hadn't this money/health issue and only from the point of view of "the game" development " ? Considering their message and threads i tend to think "no". For years they (at least, Tarn) said they wanted to do this alone, and, suddenly this. This new things will take time, quite a lot, time and work which won't go in the next release(s).
I understand it can raise some questions.
After all, if it was good for the game, why not doing this earlier ?

That's the pessimistic part of me. The optimistic part of me thinks that
- Less stress and graphic&marketing management is good.
- The time lost in the next month(s) (adapting for Steam) will be compensated by a net gain with time (next years). It's a sort if investment.
- This is a sort of "assurance" against the future. Development is secured.
- Less concerns about money = less stress = better creativity and productivity.

All in all, i think that it could be a real win-win situation, even if you are very selfish and only care about the game and not the people behind this.

[Shonai_Dweller]

It's not that sudden. Tarn mentioned Steam in at least one interview podcast quite a while back (perhaps the one with guests that included the URR and Unreal World guys?) and, I forget exactly what was said but it wasn't negative, just 'seems like a hassle but perhaps it'd make sense'.

Now he has a friend and her company dealing with the hassle while he (hopefully) pulls in more cash and feels more secure about taking 3 years off releases for a really good go at Mythgen.

What he was always against was running a company of programmers and all that hassle. He always said that would sap the fun out of the project. Now he's found an answer. Kind of natural progression.

He worked hard, became famous, built an uncompromising masterpiece and thanks to that completely independent vision managed to bring about this solution. He can continue doing what he loves with slightly more financial security and a smidgen of extra manpower.

[DG]

I see it the same way as Inarius does. I'm not angry and I hope it works out well, but I can't be sanguine when health concerns and the financial anxiety it brings has forced them to do something that they didn't want to do.

[Inarius]

I understand perfectly, Shonai, and I respect your wisdom (i've always found your opinion interesting, in general, anyway). I didn't say these "fears" or "concerns" were rationnal. It's just the state of my current reflection.
And i don't think i'm the only one to be in this state of mind.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I understand perfectly, Shonai, and I respect your wisdom (i've always found your opinion interesting, in general, anyway). I didn't say these "fears" or "concerns" were rationnal. It's just the state of my current reflection.
And i don't think i'm the only one to be in this state of mind.

Oh sure, I quite understand.
I'd likely be feeling the same if I hadn't just been playing Unreal World this week and musing on how a game can be both free and on Steam making money for the dev to follow his multiple decade plan and live his seemingly carefree life (I assume he makes money and doesn't actually live out in the wilds with a sentient tree spirit as a computer...). So I've kind of seen it coming for a while. And teaming up with Kitfox games seems natural.

I'm the same age as Toady (only, er sharing Threetoe's birthday - that's odd...) and understand the creeping feeling that if something goes wrong, it could be REALLY bad. So to protect my family I got myself a boring job at a megacorp which pays healthcare, Toady protects Scamps and Zach (and the game) by teaming up with his friend and carrying on doing everything he loves about life. He wins.

[snow dwarf]

I'm sure Toady and Threetoe made the best decision in their current situation. They're pretty smart people after all. I personally only hope that the spirit of the game, this community, always stays free for everyone to experience. I'm fine with them monetizing their game, because it does mean that in the long run they can continue working on it more, but I sincerely hope that the heart of dwarf fortress stays at Bay12, because it really is what kept the game going and a huge part of that was it being free. I'd argue that the game having been free for so long is also part of the experience and what made DF DF and I hope the devs and the publisher know that.