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[Parisbre56]

I was under the impression that we need to be there to absorb memories but Phantasms can just absorb memories on their own (otherwise they'd have no reason to go berserk and attack people when they're hungry, since they'd have nothing to gain from doing so). So they could just feed on the souls of the things they kill, we don't have to be there to witness every death. If we're lucky, maybe they can even store memories of things they kill, like how animals store excess food as fat. Maybe we can use Esme to read those memories or even extract them, milking them for resources.

That should probably be one of the things we test: can they feed on death without our help?

[King Zultan]

Create a trash golem (self powered) and an un-rat (phantasm). Compare the Mana cost.

+1

[Naturegirl1999]

I was under the impression that we need to be there to absorb memories but Phantasms can just absorb memories on their own (otherwise they'd have no reason to go berserk and attack people when they're hungry, since they'd have nothing to gain from doing so). So they could just feed on the souls of the things they kill, we don't have to be there to witness every death. If we're lucky, maybe they can even store memories of things they kill, like how animals store excess food as fat. Maybe we can use Esme to read those memories or even extract them, milking them for resources.

That should probably be one of the things we test: can they feed on death without our help?

If we want memories for ourselves, we will still need to be there

[Parisbre56]

Yeah, that is most likely true. The memory of anything they kill without our presence will probably be lost to us. However we'll only be sending them to kill rats. We have no use for rat memories except as resources to make more undead.

But still, it's bad to waste a resource. I'm hoping the phantasms will just gorge themselves on the excess memories and store them on themselves, similar to how animals store excess food as fat. We might then be able to extract those memories, either ourselves or with the help of Esme's abilities.

Of course there's risk in that. Maybe they might eat too much and end up bursting and dying. Maybe they split into multiple phantasms when they eat to much, like an amoeba. Maybe the excess energy is vented, which might be detected by some magical patrol. Maybe they eat too much and evolve into some strange monster. I have no idea how this world works. But hey, problems you caused without knowing can be fun to deal with.

[Dunamisdeos]

I see we are going with an "ends justifies the means" moral center for a necromancer. Very well.

If we are doing rats, we might as well do stray dogs. There are always stray dogs in large cities, you can lure them with food, and an angry dog that cannot feel pain or fear is more than match for basically anyone who isn't holding a shotgun.

[piecewise]

Create a trash golem (self powered) and an un-rat (phantasm). Compare the Mana cost.

+1

You explain your plan to Esme.

"Didn't you already raise both a rat and a trash creature? Shouldn't you know how hard it is to do either already?" She asks.

"Eh, let the boy try." Bruce cuts in, "But I got a suggestion for ya. Rather than trash try this."

He tosses you one of those posable wooden dolls that artists use.

"I could tell that trash thing" He points at the still living wad of paper "was difficult. Maybe that will be easier since its more like a living thing. Oh and..." He gets up and walks to the kitchen, returning a moment later with a mousetrap, complete with dead mouse. "That too."

You start with the doll and it is indeed easier than the wad of paper, though still not as easy as the mouse you animated back at the library. It takes more energy to get the connection established and, whats more, the connection does not seem permanent. It slowly degrades. Given an hour or so it would probably be completely severed and return to a lifeless state.  The mouse is another story; You animate it like you did the last time -using another nail as the core- and doing the doll and the mouse back to back really elucidates the difference. Its hard to put it down into objective measures but...you think the mouse is 4 or 5 times easier compared to the doll. Whats more, controlling it is easier.  Controlling these creatures is odd to begin with; your mind doesn't quite 'fit' the body so translating your desires to it is not always perfect. With the mouse you can do just about anything other than fine motions without issue; with the doll it feels like you're heavily restricted, as though the form is fighting against your influence, rubber banding back when not constantly forced. 

Once the mouse is reanimated you look around for a good phantom to dump into it.  You select a small, fish-like creature that is just above your head and grab it. It wriggles in your gasp and you have to expend energy to hold and pull it down, eventually forcing it into the rat. The phantom seems to melt into the flesh of the rat and vanish, but you feel it take some extra mana from you as it does. Apparently this rat has been dead too long to retain memories and the phantom took some power from you instead.

You sit back, feeling rather tired. Its an odd, all over sensation that you can't quite focus into any specific feeling, just a general malaise.

The reanimated rat, its head flopping about on a broken neck, wanders about, much to the obvious fear of Mary and mild disgust of Esme. Bruce just stares at it, his face unreadable.

[Dunamisdeos]

Feel like we should de-animate these, since they were a test and are draining.

We've established that it is possible (though difficult/impermanent/taxing) to animate non-living objects. Also our broke-ass rat is unlikely to be useful.

[Eschar]

PTW.

Here's an ...interesting tactic. Instead of waiting for exposition from them, what if we kill Esme/Bruce and extract their memories?

• The government is less likely to find us because we won't be around two spies, and just because one person is less likely to be noticed than three.
• We won't be left helpless, since we'll know what E/B know (well, knew.)
• Nicholas and Mary aren't likely to run to government authorities, given their past experiences.
• We'll have staggering amounts of unnecessary memories from them to use as fuel/food for our creations.

The only drawback I can think of is if the government realizes that once we have E/B's memories we can use them in our search for answers/Alex's research; but the government doesn't currently know we exist. Which also means that, if we're going to do this, we need to do it ASAP, after getting out of Mary's earshot and range of vision of course.

I can't really think of any reason not to do this.

[Dunamisdeos]

I like both of those people. -1

Also, let's just maybe do that to the established-to-our-own-satisfaction bad-guy police, thereby correlating everything we've been told.

[Naturegirl1999]

Feel like we should de-animate these, since they were a test and are draining.

We've established that it is possible (though difficult/impermanent/taxing) to animate non-living objects. Also our broke-ass rat is unlikely to be useful.

Yes, and the paper too. Wait, we can’t reanimate the rat since then we would be trapping a phantom in a corpse. Would it starve there or can it leave? We can possibly take the doll with us and once we kill the officers, cover the doll with muscles to see if that makes it easier. What do we do with our first mouse and Piecewise? Think they can help in an6 way? Also messing with the nail will dea I ate the mouse we animated too, not just the rat. Maybe the mouse and rat can be used to help us.

[Eschar]

I like both of those people. -1

Also, let's just maybe do that to the established-to-our-own-satisfaction bad-guy police, thereby correlating everything we've been told.

Ah, well, there's a reason I didn't bold it.

[Parisbre56]

There are several reasons not to kill our associates and Esme especially.

*We may be able to acquire her memories but we won't be able to acquire her supernatural ability. It will most likely die with her, unless undead can make use of their supernatural abilities. However the fact that we are an undead necromancer is considered unusual, so that means it's probably the same for other supernatural abilities.
*Any contacts and resources she has as part of the spy network will most likely be lost to us. They will be unlikely to trust a stranger. We might get lucky with some clever lie but they might just decide we're an enemy agent that got the information through torture. Worst case scenario we get another organization chasing us.
*Esme is linked to our existence and our creator. Losing her might close some avenues we could use to recover more information about these things.
*Furthermore, if we are subject to the same rules as other undead creatures, then that means we may be terminated at a whim of our creator. Should our creator learn of Esme's death at our hands they may decide to terminate us, either for emotional reasons or merely as a failed (or too successful) creation that failed to follow his directions.
*Finally, betrayal and indiscriminate violence in general sets a bad precedent. People will be less likely to trust us if they know we will betray them when it suits us. People will be more likely to see us as a monster rather than a person.
*The memory is not the same as the person. Even if you have someone's memories you don't have their personality and experience, the way the memories fit together. You'll never be as good as they are until you practice that knowledge and make it your own. Even if the transfer of memory is perfect (which it may not be) losing their perspective might actually make it impossible to acquire the full meaning of said memories and utilise them to their fullest.
*The dead don't talk. Sometimes you just need someone to tell you what you're doing is a bad idea, even though it sounds great in your head. Or just someone who can enjoy a silly joke.
*Humans are not a rare resource. There are plenty of victims to go around. (But again, the indiscriminate violence clause applies, so violence towards e.g. the homeless should be avoided. Better to choose "acceptable" targets rather than civilians.)

[Eschar]

I stand extremely corrected.

[Dunamisdeos]

I like both of those people. -1

Also, let's just maybe do that to the established-to-our-own-satisfaction bad-guy police, thereby correlating everything we've been told.

Ah, well, there's a reason I didn't bold it.

I mean don't get me wrong, we're apparently heading down the path of righteous villainy as it is.

I just like those people.

*snip

Hang on now. Some of those things have not been established. I expect the dead could talk if they had functioning vocal chords. Also, that first bit about not acquiring supernatural powers? You're right, but the implication there is that oh my god we should definitely devour the mind of the first evil wizard we come across to gain his secret wizardly knowledges. That's a FANTASTIC idea. If certain kinds of magic can be learned from a book, then we can learn it from them at basically no cost in time. The possibilities are boundless.

If there's one skill we should focus on, it's properly processing information from memories into our own.

[Superdorf]

...

Consider acquiring vocal cords for Piecewise.