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[Walkaboutout]

So, in the latest dev diary, there is much mention of wealth and currency as it relates to mercenary companies. Talk of upgrading gear with wealth, upkeep costs, etc.

How does this actually work? I've heard no talk (perhaps missed it, there is afterall, lots of info around) of the return of economy, so what exactly constitutes wealth at this point, in this context?

It didn't seem like Toady was referencing the barter that is generally the situation right now, so does anyone have more insight (perhaps from a FotF question I've missed) about how this will play out for the player in, say Fortress mode?

Perhaps I should just throw this into the FotF thread I guess, though if anyone has answers, it would still be welcome here of course.

[Iduno]

Was it related to worldgen or gameplay? Because all kinds of things can happen in one but not the other.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Worldgen has a simulated economy.
The simulation pauses when gameplay begins, but it's pretty simple to abstract things like merc contracts if they're happening away from the player.

I imagine with no new mechanics in place, prolonged play (decades) in a world might end up with either:
a) OP merc bands as they never run out of money
b) Slowdown of merc band expansion and improvement as their resources run out with no way to recover them.

Or nothing. We'll see in fotf later I guess.

Edit
And, as the last post said, most of this has nothing to do with Fortress mode. We already have a Merc/performance troupe hire mechanic and training system there. It'd work just the same as always I expect. With the possible addition of a whole band of mercs coming to visit, which would be nice (not for FPS, but still....)

[Shonai_Dweller]

Double post

[Untrustedlife]

Worldgen has a simulated economy.
The simulation pauses when gameplay begins, but it's pretty simple to abstract things like merc contracts if they're happening away from the player.

I imagine with no new mechanics in place, prolonged play (decades) in a world might end up with either:
a) OP merc bands as they never run out of money
b) Slowdown of merc band expansion and improvement as their resources run out with no way to recover them.

Or nothing. We'll see in fotf later I guess.

I imagine he will move that stuff to world activities like he did for site foundation and NPC adventurers, maybe not the whole economic simulation but the other aspects. Eg contracts

The goal is to eventually let adventurers do business management so the economy will make it eventually.

It wouldn’t make much sense to move the villains to world activities without moving contracts to world activities.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Worldgen has a simulated economy.
The simulation pauses when gameplay begins, but it's pretty simple to abstract things like merc contracts if they're happening away from the player.

I imagine with no new mechanics in place, prolonged play (decades) in a world might end up with either:
a) OP merc bands as they never run out of money
b) Slowdown of merc band expansion and improvement as their resources run out with no way to recover them.

Or nothing. We'll see in fotf later I guess.

I imagine he will move that stuff to world activities like he did for site foundation and NPC adventurers, maybe not the whole economic simulation but the other aspects. Eg contracts

Possibly. But there's no real need right now. We can already "hire" mercs and performance troupes in fortress mode. Same thing really. Eventually, once the player has to think about money, sure.

[Untrustedlife]

Worldgen has a simulated economy.
The simulation pauses when gameplay begins, but it's pretty simple to abstract things like merc contracts if they're happening away from the player.

I imagine with no new mechanics in place, prolonged play (decades) in a world might end up with either:
a) OP merc bands as they never run out of money
b) Slowdown of merc band expansion and improvement as their resources run out with no way to recover them.

Or nothing. We'll see in fotf later I guess.

I imagine he will move that stuff to world activities like he did for site foundation and NPC adventurers, maybe not the whole economic simulation but the other aspects. Eg contracts

Possibly. But there's no real need right now. We can already "hire" mercs and performance troupes in fortress mode. Same thing really. Eventually, once the player has to think about money, sure.

The villains are hugely important to adventure mode so you can take down the villains, so this isn’t only about fort mode.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Worldgen has a simulated economy.
The simulation pauses when gameplay begins, but it's pretty simple to abstract things like merc contracts if they're happening away from the player.

I imagine with no new mechanics in place, prolonged play (decades) in a world might end up with either:
a) OP merc bands as they never run out of money
b) Slowdown of merc band expansion and improvement as their resources run out with no way to recover them.

Or nothing. We'll see in fotf later I guess.

I imagine he will move that stuff to world activities like he did for site foundation and NPC adventurers, maybe not the whole economic simulation but the other aspects. Eg contracts

Possibly. But there's no real need right now. We can already "hire" mercs and performance troupes in fortress mode. Same thing really. Eventually, once the player has to think about money, sure.

The villains are hugely important to adventure mode so you can take down the villains, so this isn’t only about fort mode.

Yes.

Weren't we talking about merc contracts? In fortress mode. That's what the op asked.

For adventurer, sure, would be nice to be able to hire mercs and assassins when regular party members aren't enough. We'll see if it's in scope for this release later I guess.

[Death Dragon]

Related thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=172681.msg7894073

[Untrustedlife]

Worldgen has a simulated economy.
The simulation pauses when gameplay begins, but it's pretty simple to abstract things like merc contracts if they're happening away from the player.

I imagine with no new mechanics in place, prolonged play (decades) in a world might end up with either:
a) OP merc bands as they never run out of money
b) Slowdown of merc band expansion and improvement as their resources run out with no way to recover them.

Or nothing. We'll see in fotf later I guess.

I imagine he will move that stuff to world activities like he did for site foundation and NPC adventurers, maybe not the whole economic simulation but the other aspects. Eg contracts

Possibly. But there's no real need right now. We can already "hire" mercs and performance troupes in fortress mode. Same thing really. Eventually, once the player has to think about money, sure.

The villains are hugely important to adventure mode so you can take down the villains, so this isn’t only about fort mode.

Yes.

Weren't we talking about merc contracts? In fortress mode. That's what the op asked.

For adventurer, sure, would be nice to be able to hire mercs and assassins when regular party members aren't enough. We'll see if it's in scope for this release later I guess.

It would be nice to get those merc agreements yourself so you can be a merc in adventure mode.(which already has groundwork laid in the form of the agreements you can get from your lord as a hearthperson with orders such as killing ogres and mega beasts and retrieving artifacts and such that you can get (as proper quests, which show up in your agreements)  as of the artifact release. except it would be like a mercenary quest(assassinate x leader for example so it’s just a matter of replacing the ogre in that kill quest with a king or whatever and providing sufficient challenge to get to and kill your target)  That is what I thought they were referring to.

 It would also be nice for them (the mercs and assassins) to get contracts to kill your character. From the villain.
Which is what I was referring to. And why I think toady will move at least that to world activities.since we already have wandering agents, NPC questers etc. that are carrying out orders and causing trouble for adventurers (if you have what they are seeking they will mug you, attack you and ask you questions and such in the current version in adventure mode).

We shall see what happens

[Shonai_Dweller]

Yup. Should all be good.
Being assassinated by a villain's henchman is kind of exciting.  But being tracked down by a mercenary assassin guild of death-worshiping fanatics hired by the king of the elves is pretty damn awesome.

[Bumber]

It probably uses a placeholder mechanic, like raiding/tribute. In other words, money goes up with successful missions, decreases based on upkeep and purchases.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Yup. Should all be good.
Being assassinated by a villain's henchman is kind of exciting.  But being tracked down by a mercenary assassin guild of death-worshiping fanatics hired by the king of the elves is pretty damn awesome.

Goddamn, and to think I thought this upcoming release was already about as awesome as it could get.

[Eric Blank]

It probably uses a placeholder mechanic, like raiding/tribute. In other words, money goes up with successful missions, decreases based on upkeep and purchases.

This is what i suspect is the case too.
Its an arbitrary number associated with the entity, exactly where it came from and exactly where it goes probably isnt tracked beyond "on 1st hematite 501 was paid x for completion of contract y for entity z" and "1st galena 507, subtracted x for 'upkeep' and y to 'upgrade equipment' for member z."
So it doesnt even imply, yet, who they buy goods from, track what they actually are, or where or whether the other entities paying them actually got the money. No real economy, still.

[Untrustedlife]

It probably uses a placeholder mechanic, like raiding/tribute. In other words, money goes up with successful missions, decreases based on upkeep and purchases.

This is what i suspect is the case too.
Its an arbitrary number associated with the entity, exactly where it came from and exactly where it goes probably isnt tracked beyond "on 1st hematite 501 was paid x for completion of contract y for entity z" and "1st galena 507, subtracted x for 'upkeep' and y to 'upgrade equipment' for member z."
So it doesnt even imply, yet, who they buy goods from, track what they actually are, or where or whether the other entities paying them actually got the money. No real economy, still.

Each site tracks stored goods, and what they buy, produce, trade etc. Is all tracked in worldgen right now for towns. (thats how merchants can yell out where they get stuff from in adventure mode)  So i imagine something similar works with these new merc entities, the only arbitrary thing is the "money", the goods are probably being taken from nearby towns. Because that part of the "economy" is there. (he talked about this in the df talks when he added markets to towns (which was after removing of the economy) (its also how it figures out what type of clothing you start with, eg grizzly bear leather, and the other equipment you start with, and how it fills up warehouses in towns)