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[Lupin6]

Hi guys. A long while back, I wrote a thread on here about needing advice on Windows 10: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171864.0. I never got to reply back on how that went, but I had meant to, because the new machine was working out just fine. Or at least... it was.

I'm not what I consider a gamer, and I didn't want a gaming laptop specifically, but there were a few games I wanted to play that I couldn't on my old machine, so I was particularly trying to make sure I bought the right processor that could handle them easily. Now the sales rep said the processor could go "up to 3.5 GHz, which was great. Now out of two particularly demanding games, I tried Game A last week and it was a big sluggish, but I blamed that on rustiness or clunkiness on the game's part.

But yesterday I tried game B and it was in slow mo. I closed processes, but no dice. Then I decided on a whim to look at the system properties, and for the processor said "@2.70 GHz  2.90GHz".

Seeing this, I thought I must have been cheated. All the documentation said "up to 3.5 GHz", and then I thought, "wait, is up to code for overclocking speed?" But of course, overclocking is not an especially good thing to do because even if you cool the machine, or so my research has told me, it still stresses the system and can make it wear down faster.

I called Dell, and a manager tired to tell me there was a way to get the processor up to 3.5 without overclocking, that it was indeed made for 3.5, and that the 2.7-2.9 was just what it was running on now or something, that the processor runs slower when it doesn't need to go up to maximum. Something like that. I didn't quite understand it either. But if that's the case, why didn't it adjust to the proper speed before?

The tech support I got transferred to left me on hold for several minutes with white noise, so I hung up. But can anybody tell me, have they heard of anything like what I described about processors or Dell processors? I'm not certain I trust Dell to tell the truth, to be honest, so I want other opinions. Please, guys, I need help here.

[ChairmanPoo]

I don't think system properties is the right way to look at processor speed. I think you're likely missing something else that is slowing your games. Can you provide more info? eg: your computer specs, the game you're trying to play, etc...

Also, if you allow me, before you provide all those: One common cause of shitty performance with gaming laptops is the integrated graphics card kicking in, instead of the 3D one.

[Lupin6]

The processor is an Intel Core i7-7500U (4 MB cache, "up to 3.5 GHz). 8 GB of memory. 1 TB hard drive. "IntelR HD graphics 620 with shared graphics memory."

The game that was in slow motion was Child of Light. Minimum processor speed for that is 2.4, recommend is 2.6 GHz. And my machine isn't a gaming laptop, if that helps too. The game that was sluggish last week was Hand of Fate 2.

But have you heard of anything like what they're describing? I should be able to trust them, but... I'm not so sure.

[ChairmanPoo]

But have you heard of anything like what they're describing? I should be able to trust them, but... I'm not so sure.

... yeah, pretty much. Processors don't work at max clock speed by default, unless required by a program

The processor is an Intel Core i7-7500U (4 MB cache, "up to 3.5 GHz). 8 GB of memory. 1 TB hard drive. "IntelR HD graphics 620 with shared graphics memory."

The game that was in slow motion was Child of Light. Minimum processor speed for that is 2.4, recommend is 2.6 GHz. And my machine isn't a gaming laptop, if that helps too. The game that was sluggish last week was Hand of Fate 2.

It might well be the graphics card. Integrated graphics are a bit hit and miss. Sometimes they might run stuff you wouldn't think would run, others they let you down.

I happen to have a similarly specced Dell laptop. IIRC Hand of Fate 1 DID run, but I think I certainly did not go wild on the settings. Haven't tried HoF2.

Also check whether you have a lot of crap in the background. That might cause trouble too.

[Khan Boyzitbig]

According to Intel the I7-7500u has:

Processor Base Frequency
2.70 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency
3.50 GHz

This is fairly normal for Intel CPUs. Laptops usually don't run full pelt if they don't need to for power saving and heat prevention.

If your laptop doesn't have a proper GPU (and that Intel HD 620 is not a proper GPU) most games will run slow. Although it should be enough for that game I think, check for any other programs that are using a lot of RAM (as iGPUs use system RAM because they don't have any of their own) web browsers for example.

[Lupin6]

But have you heard of anything like what they're describing? I should be able to trust them, but... I'm not so sure.

... yeah, pretty much. Processors don't work at max clock speed by default, unless required by a program

The processor is an Intel Core i7-7500U (4 MB cache, "up to 3.5 GHz). 8 GB of memory. 1 TB hard drive. "IntelR HD graphics 620 with shared graphics memory."

The game that was in slow motion was Child of Light. Minimum processor speed for that is 2.4, recommend is 2.6 GHz. And my machine isn't a gaming laptop, if that helps too. The game that was sluggish last week was Hand of Fate 2.

It might well be the graphics card. Integrated graphics are a bit hit and miss. Sometimes they might run stuff you wouldn't think would run, others they let you down.

I happen to have a similarly specced Dell laptop. IIRC Hand of Fate 1 DID run, but I think I certainly did not go wild on the settings. Haven't tried HoF2.

Also check whether you have a lot of crap in the background. That might cause trouble too.

I closed whatever processes I could, and that didn't help.

According to Intel the I7-7500u has:

Processor Base Frequency
2.70 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency
3.50 GHz

This is fairly normal for Intel CPUs. Laptops usually don't run full pelt if they don't need to for power saving and heat prevention.

If your laptop doesn't have a proper GPU (and that Intel HD 620 is not a proper GPU) most games will run slow. Although it should be enough for that game I think, check for any other programs that are using a lot of RAM (as iGPUs use system RAM because they don't have any of their own) web browsers for example.

One, "Turbo Frequency" doesn't mean overclocking, correct?

Two, you think I got a lousy graphics card, then?

And of course I had closed all the other programs before I booted the game, including the browsers.

[ChairmanPoo]

Two, you think I got a lousy graphics card, then?

Yeah, integrated graphics kind of suck in general. I'd say gsming on one is a matter of finding what runs, rather than expecting it to run any given thing.

[Khan Boyzitbig]

Turbo is not overclocking, the CPU won't stay at that speed for long. Integrated GPUs can be okay, if you want to watch a video or mess with spreadsheets, but they are not meant for gaming.

[Lupin6]

So in other words the sales rep sold me a terrible graphics card and I'm out a lot of money unless I can force them to let me return it.

............................... sigh. I can't say you've helped me feel any better, but thanks....

[ChairmanPoo]

To be fair, you said yourself that it wasnt a gaming laptop. Integrated graphics are for day, to day use, which can include casual gaming as long as you're realistic about the outcomes. If he told you that integrated graphics were great for gaming , yeah, he lied, but I get the feeling that (no offense) the central problem is that you weren't really well informed about what you needed and what you were buying in the first place

I'd say keep your cool. There are plenty of good games that can run well (eg pretty much anything released before 2010, and low req games since. For instance I'm fairly sure darkest dungeon will run)
Come to think of it your stats dont differ a lot from my working laptop(I think your cpu is worse, and the ram is a bit lower, but that's about it). I might as well write a short list of games that runndecently, if you like, and you can try that

[Ulfarr]

Iirc turbo is for single core processes. Back when I set my desktop I remember reading that my i5-6500 can go up to 3.6Ghz when a program doesn’t use the other cores or something.

[Lupin6]

To be fair, you said yourself that it wasnt a gaming laptop. Integrated graphics are for day, to day use, which can include casual gaming as long as you're realistic about the outcomes. If he told you that integrated graphics were great for gaming , yeah, he lied, but I get the feeling that (no offense) the central problem is that you weren't really well informed about what you needed and what you were buying in the first place

I'd say keep your cool. There are plenty of good games that can run well (eg pretty much anything released before 2010, and low req games since. For instance I'm fairly sure darkest dungeon will run)
Come to think of it your stats dont differ a lot from my working laptop(I think your cpu is worse, and the ram is a bit lower, but that's about it). I might as well write a short list of games that runndecently, if you like, and you can try that

No thank you for the list. I just want to be able to run what I like. And in truth, I tested some of the Steam games I already had, and those that were full screen were having trouble starting. Well, all but Scribblenauts Unlimited. That works fine as far as I could tell.

I probably should have mentioned specific cards to the rep, but I still trust the sales rep to be able to make appropriate suggestions. It's just a mess. But that's why I'm intending to get a different machine with a more suitable graphics card and a better processor anyway, after I figure out what I'm doing with this machine...

On the subject of running games, I ran into another issue today I wanted to run by you guys. I tried playing something on Armor Games, you know, an old Flash game. It had some trouble starting, and when I tried to save (one of those save at any time games), it said "Save Failed", and I got a notification from my laptop that, "Application firefox.exe has been blocked from accessing Graphics hardware." I restarted the game, and there was no save file listed. This is a local save, btw.

I tried one or two other games, one on a different website. These either failed to save, or wouldn't start at all, and I got the same notification. I closed out Firefox and opened it again, and the same happened.

My question to you guys is this: Do you think this is the result of the graphics card being unsuitable, or do you think this is a setting problem?

If it's the former, it will be fixed when I set up my replacement, but if it's the latter, I'd like to know how to fix it and/or prevent it for said replacement. Any ideas?

EDIT: One more thing!

I just want to make sure about this, but the new machine I'm looking at has this graphics card: AMD Radeon 530 Graphics

Now as far as graphics, this is what Child of Light says:

Minimum: nVidia GeForce 8800 GT or AMD Radeon HD2900 XT (512MB VRAM with Shader Model 4.0 or higher)

Recommended: nVidia GeForce GTX260 or AMD Radeon HD4870 (512MB VRAM with Shader Model 4.0 or higher)

And for Hand of Fate 2:

Minimum: Intel HD Graphics 4600, NVIDIA GeForce GT 630, Radeon HD 5670

Recommended: Intel HD Graphics 5200, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750, Radeon HD 7800

With those listings in mind, do you think the graphics card on the laptop I'm looking at will be able to handle them?

[ChairmanPoo]

:shrug:   no idea, I've not had an AMD card since the late nineties. Although it doesn't sound awe inspiring tbh.

I've found a page where they benchmark it with the fps you can expectnin several games, compared to their reqs. That might give you a clue https://technical.city/en/video/Radeon-530

At the bottom they offer a benchmark comparison with other cards, and they conclude

We believe that the nearest equivalent to Radeon 530 from NVIDIA is GeForce GT 650M, which is nearly equal in speed and lower by 1 position in our rating

So it's kinda barely above the minimum sysreqs. That doesn't mean it will *actually* work, or be playable.


Honestly, like I said before, you have to be realistic. You're not going overboard on hardware, for certain. I think a GT650M is what my 2012 PC has, back home, and if the AMD 530 is equivalent to that, well.... it will run things. But bear in mind that it used to be a high standard... 7 years ago (and I think even then it was upper quartile, not quite "top of the market")

 If you'll allow me to be brutally honest:  Be prepared to cough up far more money for an actual gaming rig, or else temper your expectations, I'd say. :/

[Iduno]

Laptops tend to be a bit slower and a lot more expensive than a desktop. Smaller form factor, and not wanting everything to melt/start on fire.

Also, I think the integrated graphics uses the same memory as the rest of the computer, so that could have an effect as well. Although unless you have very little memory in the laptop, closing other programs like you said should have fixed that if it was the issue. Did program manager show either the memory or the CPU at/near 100%?

[Schmaven]

A useful free program you might be interested in is "Speccy"  It shows you all the stats on all your system hardware, including temperatures.

In my experience, when my graphics card or CPU starts overheating, performance really starts to drop dramatically.  Also, they can begin to overheat in seconds (depending on your cooling system and the workload).  ---my second application of the thermal paste was much more effective than the first.

Laptops tend to be a bit slower and a lot more expensive than a desktop. Smaller form factor, and not wanting everything to melt/start on fire.

A laptop would be nice, but I don't have the money to keep 1 up to date.  Desktops are far more affordable.  And there are lots of helpful articles on the web that can teach one how to upgrade / replace components.