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[Deus Machina]

Third year of a fort, and my military dwarves have gone up to level 2 or 3 in their respective weapons.
Most of the crossbowdwarfs--that didn't start as experienced hunters--are notable lower.
I remember this being notable faster in the past. What can I really improve on?

The squad training sessions are set at 2 dorfs minimum, melee is set to train 2 months on then 1 month off. Ranged is 1:1, after reading about the bug that would have them train when they were off, rather than on, and them being useful elsewhere.
I don't even have any invaders to capture or appreciable influx of worthwhile critters for live training. This will of course change in time or across forts. So far the best I can manage is sending them to rampage against the occasional group of troglodytes, and even then my little derps are only alive after that because I have them covered in steel.

[Shonai_Dweller]

2 minimum is a myth (or perhaps some advice for a years old bug that was fixed - no idea).
Well, it's kind of buggy in that "2 minimum" seems to actually mean "2 maximum". Which means you've got a bunch of dorfs who won't bother training if you do set it like that - counterproductive.

Archery workarounds are almost all for mythical bugs too.
Set everything as it's supposed to be set, without workarounds, give them a barracks, give them a range (with each target in it individually set) and everyone will train tremendously fast these days.
The only thing you might possibly want to consider is to not put bolts in bins because stuff in bins can get stuck sometimes.

It's possible that, like with sparring, more experienced archers will use the range more. That might be why your ex-hunters are training up faster.

[Bumber]

2 minimum is a myth (or perhaps some advice for a years old bug that was fixed - no idea).
Well, it's kind of buggy in that "2 minimum" seems to actually mean "2 maximum". Which means you've got a bunch of dorfs who won't bother training if you do set it like that - counterproductive.

It was "5x train 2 minimum", to encourage sparring over demonstrations.

[Shonai_Dweller]

2 minimum is a myth (or perhaps some advice for a years old bug that was fixed - no idea).
Well, it's kind of buggy in that "2 minimum" seems to actually mean "2 maximum". Which means you've got a bunch of dorfs who won't bother training if you do set it like that - counterproductive.

It was "5x train 2 minimum", to encourage sparring over demonstrations.

But recently dorfs have been sparring in groups bigger than 2, so I guess that's no longer necessary?
I find they all gain skills far too fast these days anyhow (at least for vanilla siege trigger settings).

[Saiko Kila]

I train my crossbowmen in shooting first, without assigning to barracks (actually I just do live training, to get them to level 5 quickly), then assign to barracks to let them train other skills. Such dwarves won't charge into melee, and certainly won't climb over obstacles to charge. I observe such behaviour in greenhorn replacement, who weren't properly trained according to this regimen. Shooters should have more shooting weapon skill than melee weapon skill.

There is a bug with mixed squads - for example if I have 8 marksdwarves and 2 bowmen, only arrows are assigned to the squad, so eight people have no ammo. I have not found solution for this yet, apart from not mixing bows with crossbows.

By the way, legendary skill in ranged weapon doesn't mean the soldier is some real sharpshooter. It still can take over 200 bolts to bring down one enemy, and in case of fliers most of the bolts just don't connect.

The reason the dwarves in the OP don't level is already mentioned - the 2 minimum is more like 2 maximum. I set mine to 8 (so dwarves can occasionally do something for their needs) and it seems everything works fine. Well, except the initial training of marksmen, where they can pick up bad habits.

[Sver]

The fastest way to train melee right now is just to set the squad to train all together indefinitely. In about 2-3 years they usually gain Legendary in their weapon skill. Personally, I've never experienced any problems wih this set up: the dwarves go about eating, sleeping and drinking just fine, without any train limit shenanigans.

In general, it can be good to have multiple incomplete squads instead of a smaller amount of fully packed ones. They are easier to cointrol this way, and it doesn't cost you anything; the only possible problem is clutter on the nobles screen. You can always order two squads to go to the same spot, but splitting a full squad mid-action (which is often handy) will be painfully micro-intensive. Also, as already mentioned, ranged and melee troops just don't mix together well (and the same can be said for different ranged weapons in the same squad) due to the way the game handles ammunition.

[Deus Machina]

Okay, so the min-2 thing is a mistake. I'll change that, then.
I haven't mixed squads in forever. It's just easier to keep the ranged ones back where they're supposed to be that way.
I've heard of stress problems when a dorf doesn't get time off. Is it not that big of a problem? I do try to do my best to keep armed-and-armored dorfs from tantruming in the inn or going berserk.

[Sver]

With the current stress system, you can try to set up a "softer" schedule, just in case. For instance, instead of training every month, have them train every odd month and stay off-duty every even month. This way they get two times less training, but have quite enough time for themselves. Just make sure they are set to stay uniformed while off-duty or else the equipment chaos will ensue.

[therahedwig]

I've been doing full squads in multiples of two, where one squad trains the summer and winter, and the other squad trains the spring and autumn. They'll start out with demonstrations and drills for the first season and by the second they'll be sparring. This is especially interesting if for the first squad let them choose whatever weapon, and after a squad becomes decent you split it up in the specialties you've chosen, they'll be sharing their skills if possible.

For archery the hardest part is keeping up with the training bolt production :p Just don't put them in a barracks and make sure they have crossbows.

[FantasticDorf]

Retire old legendary miners (and alteast 'professional' ones to improve their skills over time) into thier own military squad within the same barracks as other mediocre soldiers, their experience of being virtually weapon grandmasters will both carry off well and give new squads some candidates for squad leaders, the act of having to fight off so many fast & hard attacks as well as being competent for the miner to parry with his pick will mean that both physically & ability wise the troops will improve.

Putting points of 'Teacher' into your starting miners so that there's some transferrable teaching skills going on without waiting for alternative sources also helps. Similarly to getting a head start on scholarly work or raiding by giving someone some levels in tactician to teach a protege'.



Im sure despite only being about 5,3 or shorter Goden my prize master macedwarf could crush me with her bare hands after learning how to break stones using only her thumbs first from the equally quite scary miners, many physical capabilities can be overcome too such as fatigue but agility will aways remain the same to define the soldiers you should let go. 

• Raiding is effective too for perking up skills quickly, hunters with natural high ambush skills can fufill this niche whether they use ranged weapons or not and should be reserved, and only get better the more they stealthily go in and steal livestock & items from sites.

[anewaname]

You mentioned your dwarfs are in steel. When they are in full armor, they will train slower. You can reduce their encumbrance by 60% if they use lighter armor (bone/shell greaves, no breastplate, and metal for the rest). This will give them full coverage and be adequate for fighting wildlife.

Othewise, I focus on the overall military effectiveness and happiness of the dwarf. This means they train both civilian and military skills.

Squads train 10 dwarfs, for 2 months per season. They all have Plant Gathering and a mix of craft skills (often weaponsmith). This means that once per season, a group of dwarfs pick the zones clean of plants, improving their Memory attribute which should benefit the Student skill. Only military dwarfs have Plant Gathering skill enabled so the plants accumulate for two seasons. There are unimportant crafting jobs that trigger once per season in workshops that are set to allow only low-skill crafters. I'm not sure how effective this is, but those that take the jobs are happy about it.

Because dodging/armor-user skills train slower while a dwarf has a weapon or shield in hand, dwarfs are first put in a squad with light armor and no weapon or shield. After they gain 5+ levels in these skills, they are moved to squads equipped with weapons and shields.

The only idea here that I didn't get from another player is the "train 2 months per season then gather plants for one season to train Memory" system.

[Deus Machina]

Well, I try to keep encumbrance down as much while still keeping them fully covered-- mail shirt, gauntlets, high boots, helm. Shields for melee and bucklers for ranged; I remember reading this allows them to carry extra bolts. I'll change that if it doesn't now.
Once they reach full-level armor-user, melee dorfs then also get a breastplate and greaves, any get masterwork weapons if possible and they don't already have them, and transferred to the 'heavy' squad.

If they seem to have any mood problems, I'm considering making a few workshops set to only allow the military dorfs to keep their off time occupied.

Now I think I'll be making the training unarmed squad, on the premise that a good armor user/puncher/kicker/wrestler that sees a sword as a heavy stick is better than one mediocre with all of them.
I haven't been putting legendary miners in the military because they're useful, but now I think I'll start using them as teachers or putting them in a squad with a steel pick and conscripting incoming beekeepers and pump operators useless dorfs to miners instead of the army to begin with.

[FantasticDorf]

You mentioned your dwarfs are in steel. When they are in full armor, they will train slower. You can reduce their encumbrance by 60% if they use lighter armor (bone/shell greaves, no breastplate, and metal for the rest). This will give them full coverage and be adequate for fighting wildlife.

Othewise, I focus on the overall military effectiveness and happiness of the dwarf. This means they train both civilian and military skills.

Squads train 10 dwarfs, for 2 months per season. They all have Plant Gathering and a mix of craft skills (often weaponsmith). This means that once per season, a group of dwarfs pick the zones clean of plants, improving their Memory attribute which should benefit the Student skill.

Use a job restricted burrow to not deprive resources from the rest of your fortress of areas around it, interesting i never knew it did that.

Using a burrow could also be used to encourage them up sheer faces to train climbing after forbidding a door at the bottom of the entrance stairwell and laying out a easily traversible shaft by using logs to both soften falls & give a grip. Not as safe as training minecarts by making dwarves ride one through water but i never really figured out how that works.

[anewaname]

You mentioned your dwarfs are in steel. When they are in full armor, they will train slower. You can reduce their encumbrance by 60% if they use lighter armor (bone/shell greaves, no breastplate, and metal for the rest). This will give them full coverage and be adequate for fighting wildlife.

Othewise, I focus on the overall military effectiveness and happiness of the dwarf. This means they train both civilian and military skills.

Squads train 10 dwarfs, for 2 months per season. They all have Plant Gathering and a mix of craft skills (often weaponsmith). This means that once per season, a group of dwarfs pick the zones clean of plants, improving their Memory attribute which should benefit the Student skill.

Use a job restricted burrow to not deprive resources from the rest of your fortress of areas around it, interesting i never knew it did that.

Using a burrow could also be used to encourage them up sheer faces to train climbing after forbidding a door at the bottom of the entrance stairwell and laying out a easily traversible shaft by using logs to both soften falls & give a grip. Not as safe as training minecarts by making dwarves ride one through water but i never really figured out how that works.

It has been a while since I attempted to put all my dwarfs in burrows and I only use burrows in a limited way still (limiting web collection areas and forge room activities, as well as the civ alert). This is why I use the seasonal military schedule for the plant gathering zones. I like that you can use burrows to force the training of the climbing skill.

[A_S00]

...give them a range (with each target in it individually set)...

What does this mean, exactly?  Do you assign multiple overlapping barracks, one from each archery target, and then assign all of them to be used as training zones by your marksdwarf squad?

I've noticed that I usually only have one marksdwarf doing archery practice at a time, maybe this is why.