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[Raven]

In my latest fortress I saw that tavern are often a source of FUN, attracting too many strange people (goblins) and causing brawls and troubles

so, since dwarves need more a temple, could I avoid to build a tavern?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Once friendship and socialising is fixed, then yeah, you'll almost certainly need a tavern to keep your dwarves destressed.

Right now, just don't permit visitors and your dorfs can still have plenty of less lethal fun. So long as you never need mercs.

You're aware that these are not goblins from goblin civs for the most part, right?

[Raven]

You're aware that these are not goblins from goblin civs for the most part, right?

IIRC if a goblin siege happened with goblin guests, they could turn hostile
was it a bug?

[PatrikLundell]

I suspect it's possible to do without a tavern, but I see no reason why you'd want to, and if you did you'd probably increase the fortress stress level consideraby. Taverns are basically essential to satisfy needs to Socialize. If you're worried about visitors, you can make the tavern off limits to them, and if you're worried about bar room brawls you can refrain from appointing poisoners (a.k.a. "bar keeper" and "performer") to them. Dwarves need to Pray as well as Socialize: it's not an either/or choice.

I don't use poisoners, but I do allow visitors. I have to kill off visitors occasionally as they tantrum (the stress system is hard on visitors as well), and there is a risk/chance of getting infiltrators*, which can be interesting and frustrating at the same time.

*Infiltrators are the results of some bugginess in the artifact quest system. Questers often come on groups, and sometimes one of them leaves the fortress and returns as stealthed thieves while the rest of the group remains inside the fortress. When the thief is engaged (not detected, but when either it attacks or gets attacked) the infiltrators become stealthed hostiles: some of them continue with their business (e.g. socializing) while still scaring locals, others run around in panic while still scaring locals, and some attack locals while still pretending to go about their business. Since none of the infiltrators are marked as hostile, they're hard to deal with, but I've found that active militia stationed close to them can detect them and eliminate them. I've also had a case of an infiltrator who ceased to scare locals after a while, and the militia sent there didn't detect anything odd.

Raven and Shonai_Dweller posted while I wrote:
There was a bug where guests could turn hostile when a siege showed up. This bug has mostly been fixed, but there's a recent report in the bug tracker showing this behavior (in that case pitting a prisoner results in madness).

[Shonai_Dweller]

You're aware that these are not goblins from goblin civs for the most part, right?

IIRC if a goblin siege happened with goblin guests, they could turn hostile
was it a bug?

If you have visitors from a civilization which attacks you, the visitors have been known to become violent (generally they don't though). Since goblin civ goblins almost never visit you it"s irrelevant. Humans and elves are the ones you need to be wary of.

[Raven]

I suspect it's possible to do without a tavern, but I see no reason why you'd want to, and if you did you'd probably increase the fortress stress level consideraby. Taverns are basically essential to satisfy needs to Socialize. If you're worried about visitors, you can make the tavern off limits to them, and if you're worried about bar room brawls you can refrain from appointing poisoners (a.k.a. "bar keeper" and "performer") to them. Dwarves need to Pray as well as Socialize: it's not an either/or choice.

I don't use poisoners, but I do allow visitors. I have to kill off visitors occasionally as they tantrum (the stress system is hard on visitors as well), and there is a risk/chance of getting infiltrators*, which can be interesting and frustrating at the same time.

*Infiltrators are the results of some bugginess in the artifact quest system. Questers often come on groups, and sometimes one of them leaves the fortress and returns as stealthed thieves while the rest of the group remains inside the fortress. When the thief is engaged (not detected, but when either it attacks or gets attacked) the infiltrators become stealthed hostiles: some of them continue with their business (e.g. socializing) while still scaring locals, others run around in panic while still scaring locals, and some attack locals while still pretending to go about their business. Since none of the infiltrators are marked as hostile, they're hard to deal with, but I've found that active militia stationed close to them can detect them and eliminate them. I've also had a case of an infiltrator who ceased to scare locals after a while, and the militia sent there didn't detect anything odd.

Raven and Shonai_Dweller posted while I wrote:
There was a bug where guests could turn hostile when a siege showed up. This bug has mostly been fixed, but there's a recent report in the bug tracker showing this behavior (in that case pitting a prisoner results in madness).

shouldn't be a normal meeting room in the dining room be sufficient for social activity?

[PatrikLundell]

I haven't tried, but if it does work, I see no difference from a tavern without poisoners and visitors.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I haven't tried, but if it does work, I see no difference from a tavern without poisoners and visitors.

I don't think people (besides children) will sing, dance, tell stories, spout poetry or "socialize" in a standard dining room. They just eat.
Well, I haven't actually tried it, but I'm pretty sure if they did they'd be doing it around the wagon at the beginning. Same reason they don't dance in the library.

[Raven]

So i just create a tavern without assign a tavernkeeper?

[Fleeting Frames]

Yeah, some needs can be fulfilled by plain old meeting area, but there are some that practically need tavern (with nonreligious and the relative rarity of temple performances). Though there's upsides as well, such as the idler count and some social activities, in particular baby-making iirc, benefitting more from plain old meeting area. They don't talk to each other at the moment they're praying or dancing, after all. (Furniture might be "harmful" as well, going by few anecdotes (haven't tried in own fort) with tightly packed empty taverns in stress thread).

[anewaname]

Restricted tavern without a barkeeper = dancing and singing without visitors!

[Senator Jim Death]

You know, I was going to say that I don't want a tavern keeper wasting my precious booze on nobodies... but then I realized I have a thousand booze for 50 dwarves.

There's so much booze that the cats are somehow getting it on them, even though it's a dry tavern. Maybe the visitors are smuggling in their own drinks.