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Author Topic: Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Day 4: Mafia Wins(5/10)+1  (Read 69662 times)

Nirur Torir

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #225 on: March 26, 2019, 06:29:45 pm »

Quote
you want them to post
WTF
Of course you want the scum to dig themselves into a deep pit of despair, lies, and mistakes.
When they say nothing they're not visibly making mistakes.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #226 on: March 26, 2019, 06:45:13 pm »

IcyTea and Tom: I would especially like your opinions on my case against Hector, given his weird reads on you (and not commenting on them):

In short: Hector has a weak case on me, didn't respond to me calling it weak, and has me as his top scum pick. His second, and only other pick is a lurker who he claims to always read as scummy.
He refused to investigate anyone else, list other potential scum candidates, or expand on his case on me, and, when pressed, said he's done with me.
Despite me being his only real scum pick, he doesn't seem interested in actually trying to get me lynched.
He's purposefully trying to appear scummy. Could be town to convince scum not to nightkill him, could be a double bluff to make it look like that's what he's doing to stay safe as scum.
Interesting that you don't bring up the "to provoke me" possibility.
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IcyTea - town lean. Engaging with things, asking people things. Bemused why he thinks my refuge is not as good as webadict’s refuge. Reads list doesn’t quite gel with mine, can’t complain about that I guess.
Two posts are not enough to really say someone's being engaging.
Comment on this in particular: did you miss my 2000-word post? If spending literally hours after an absence to catch up on everything I could isn't engaging, I don't know what is.
I don't mean to disrespect the time you put into that, but I wouldn't consider it engaging before a few days of activity, no matter how much time is spent on your first day. On the way to engaging, definitely.

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I'm not going to put in the time and effort to play with people who don't actually want to play the game.
I hope you reconsider, even if as a lower effort player.

Nirur - I latch because I am new, and they took action fastest. Now I learn to swim, and float on my own. STOP. LINKING. US.
The link will be brought up over and over again forever. Being new doesn't make tells vanish.

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Icytea - Just threw themselves out a window. I say cornered Scum that's leaving his corpse for someone else to pick up.
Explain please. I don't see anything other than vaguries on IcyTea.

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roseheart - Can we just shoot him? I mean, I thought a "Jester" type role too, or otherwise one that works from the grave, but... Eh. He's just the least helpful of us all.
Kit: In light of Roseheart's partial roleclaim: Explain.

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COMPLETE ROLE DUMP, FOLKS!
I .. really don't know what to say about this. Mostly disappointed, because if true, that's a great role to keep secret, now out in the open.
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RoseHeart

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #227 on: March 26, 2019, 07:12:19 pm »

How many mafia could there be  in a game this size? 3rd parties?
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RoseHeart

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #228 on: March 26, 2019, 07:15:35 pm »

My death ability would still be useful even if I don't get revived.
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

RoseHeart

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #229 on: March 26, 2019, 07:17:27 pm »

It would just influence though. I AM NOT A JESTER!
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He who knows he has enough is rich. -Lao Tzu
Whenever you've got to make a hard decision, don't become somebody that you don't respect. -Dr. John
Power doesn't corrupt, power reveals. -Robert Caro

webadict

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #230 on: March 26, 2019, 07:34:39 pm »

Unvote. I want to be able to pay tomorrow, and there's too many votes right now and not enough time.
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hector13

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2019, 07:41:57 pm »

IcyTea has been engaged with the game more than you have Nirur. You’ve been stuck on me like a “kick me” sign on a fat kid all day. Which I guess makes my thoughts on read order a bit clearer for me.

Also, given the way Kit made their claim, they’ll either be modkilled or they’re lying. Their reads list makes me comfortable with my read on them.

Also, assuming Kit’s read on roseheart’s reads list is accurate

I'm guessing it's
+: Town
~: Fence
-: Scummy (hey, I'm on that bloody list!)
=:REALLY scummy

Alright,

1. Icytea =
2. FallacyofUrist +
3. hector13 -
4. Failbird105 ~
5. roseheart +
6. Nirur Torir -
7. KitRougard -
8. Dolores ~
9. Tomasque ~
10. webadict +

This list is awful. How is FoU town? How is IcyTea worse than me or Nirur?  How is dolores on the fence? How is webadict town?

Why do you have four scum picks in a 10 player game? Do you think 40% of the town is bad? Why are me and Nirur scum when we’ve been at each other’s necks for the entire game? Why are me and Kit scum when he’s one of my top two scum picks?
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Nirur Torir

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #232 on: March 26, 2019, 07:48:48 pm »

Vote to Extend if we're done making Roseheart panic.
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KitRougard

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #233 on: March 26, 2019, 08:00:35 pm »

Threw himself out a window means he left. He actually just quit. It is common in ToS for salty Scum to bail out under pressure. Once saw a game where a scum X went up to hang and player Y left... And was Scum.

And for Roseheart, he's telling the truth, but he thinks it would be better if he died at night rather than being our lynch - but if he dies, yay him either way.


...wait I can get modkilled for busting out role-facts? Uh.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #234 on: March 26, 2019, 08:08:42 pm »

No, the part about IcyTea being cornered scum. I haven't seen worse on him than what's on anyone else who's active.
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hector13

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #235 on: March 26, 2019, 08:09:50 pm »

Quoting your PM, which it looks like you kinda sorta did. Depends on how Tric interprets it. Might not since there’s technically no quote tags.

IcyTea is outraged because webadict is being a bit of a tit. He’s not the type of player to cut and run when his team go down. And if you’re right, there’d still be two of them anyway.

Anyway. Why is roseheart voting Nirur when IcyTea is allegedly more scummy?
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

If you struggle with your mental health, please seek help.

dolores

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #236 on: March 27, 2019, 02:41:29 am »

Alright.
I had to cancel my plans for tonight so I've got time to post. I still haven't slept and I'm fucking pissed that I'm at home tonight.
This Day has gone places. Not all of those places are good. Some of them are at least useful. Major points I'll be trying to cover:
  • KitRougard is town. I'm not happy about this, especially because it means I can't really pressure them anymore despite the fact that they failed to shape up. TricMagic wrote that role that they posted, which means that it's a real claim.
  • Roseheart is retarded or trolling or both. I could buy that they're scum/third party pretending to be a jester because they don't realize that B12 players will consider it a possible role because it's too dumb to bother including in a setup, otherwise it's alignment independent shitposting and they're going to be a detriment even if they rolled town.
  • Tomasque is still scum and I'll be demonstrating why later in this post
  • Unless IcyTea is the kind of person to pull this shit as an actual gambit they're no more or less likely to be scum than FoU. Most of my reasoning to call them more likely to be town is based off of work being done, which obviously hasn't been reflected by more recent events.
  • Nirur either has no idea what they're doing or they're scum. The first part has been virtually 100% confirmed by this point so I've got no idea what their alignment is. We're not lynching him today.
Everybody else is in pretty much the same place as they were before now. I've been playing badly but nobody here could justify a lynch on me if I was 100% confirmed scum so you can all get fucked.
Hector and Webadict are still in a scumchat with Tomasque, but given webadict's been inactive and hector hasn't commented on it it's safe to assume he's not looking any better there than in the thread.

My actual ability allowed me to see the numbers of Scum and Rogue in play, all of whom we need to kill to win. A caviet, however, was that if at any point I come out and just say "HEY THERE'S X SCUM AND Y ROGUES" I wind up dead.
I skipped over this part before because I didn't have time for the wifom but it's concerning that we need to kill the third party to win. If they're scum-siding, we're in mylo. Honestly, I still don't have time for the wifom but it's worth noting that Kit's claimed that we need to kill the third party, which would imply sk/cult.
KitRougard is Town
For fucks sake I don't want to spend any time defending you, let alone this much.
Q2: I never actually said I wanted to stop voting Hector. As before, that was a pile-on vote, because that's usually how you lynch in ToS - the Snowball Effect! In truth, he's the target for my big Ability tonight, and I'd rather not kill him and have it wasted since after Lynch, day's over.
Huh? You've claimed that your day power is a protect which makes the target unblockable. Why would you be using this on somebody you think is scum? Huh?
What?
I'm going to need to come back to this. I'll write up a post about the other things I wanted to say before I get back to you
What the fuck is this?
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dolores

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #237 on: March 27, 2019, 03:38:09 am »

My 「flawless play」 has been thoroughly compromised.
Gut reads:
KitRougard: serial killer
Tomasque: scum
Roseheart: not town
FoU & ICT: not playing
Nirur: no idea what they're doing
Failbird: not getting a replacemnt
Webadict: not posted
Hector: not on Tomasque's scumteam
Dolores: not applicable

I'm drowning in a sea of wine thinking about Kit. I realize that I can't just 'sit and think about it' and I need to keep posting so I'll make my case on Tomasque in the meantime. By all accounts serialKitRougard is probably going to kill me anyway, so I can't really hold onto my working out until the next day anyway.
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dolores

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #238 on: March 27, 2019, 05:51:39 am »

Tomasque
Okay, so I'm bad at real-time mafia. By all accounts Kit is too. This sequence:
You vote for hector once he's already been voted by Nirur, then back off once Nirur questions whether you really should be voting so hastily. In response, Nirur tells you that hector is the safest lynch vote, so when hector begins questioning Nirur, you vote him again. Then, after Nirur has already answered hector's question, you jump in and defend him with an answer of your own.
I can accept as poor real-time-mafia scum play from a player who says they're bad at real-time-mafia. I disagree with your attempt to link it to Nirur Torir. This is me backpedaling from my previous position, because before I started writing my previous post on Kit's voting habits their posts just didn't make sense to me and it felt like you were trying to call something random deliberate buddying and/or an attempt to falseflag an attack on a teammate, and the defense thereof. However, just because I can acknowledge the narrative in which this is you calling out scummy play, your conclusions still don't make sense. The Nirur/Kit and Kit/Hector interactions are separate. Kit and Nirur being partners trying to deflect suspicion doesn't make sense because they've made a lynch between them relatively likely, they're obviously not reading each other as town, and you haven't updated your case except to say that Kit hasn't done anything to shift your original reason for the lynch.
I think that we should lynch kit. He's been silent for a while, and in the last post he made, he accused me of calling him scum & submerging. His original behavior with Nirur seemed a suspicious to me and worthy of pressing him about it, but the fact that he voted me back right after and then went silent has convinced me that he is scum.
See, I don't like this. You're not wrong that the things that he has been doing are suspicious. The problem is that you never used them to create pressure to get a real case out on Kit. You've sort of noticed things and then left it at that. You found somewhere to park your vote and then sat on it, because you don't really care about finding scum or lynching Kit.
I don't think that your case on Kit is scummy. I think the way you're playing is scummy and your 'case' on Kit doesn't have enough merit to justify it. You're not doing anything to advance the game, and all you've done other than answer questions is say 'we should lynch Kit' or 'if we're not lynching Kit we should lynch webadict'. Either you're convinced both of them are scum and it's obvious enough that you don't have to do any particular work to make the lynch happen, or, uh, I guess you don't care about lynching scum?
So let's take a look at everything that you've done so far:
Answered questions, asked Nirur to defend from a case you never made, called webadict scum, called Kit scum
Webadict and Kit were and are incredibly soft targets and while your cases against them seem plausible, you just sort of posture about following up on them if they don't justify themselves satisfactorily to your incredibly vague criteria, which you never follow up on. It especially bothers me that you don't use the opportunity to pressure them into interacting with other players, and instead ask for a defense targeted towards you in particular.
Double down on saying that only webadict and Kit are scummy, accuse webadict of going after an easy target (even though at this point he's totally inactive besides what's essentially a policy vote on a lurker), double down on your claims about webadict and Kit without referring to any additional evidence
Despite being close to as large as your original post, there's no substance to this one at all. You literally request that webadict give a different answer to your standing question and ask nothing else of anyone else. At this point you're telling me you've got scum reads on webadict and Kit and nobody else, and you don't ask a single question to a single player. You don't ask Kit questions. You don't ask the other players who might be scum questions, even though you can reasonably assume there are more than two scum. You don't do anything, really.
Offhand response to a simple question
Except you're literally adding nothing
I mean, technically you answered the question. But we're none the wiser about who is or isn't scum.
Answer a bunch of questions, double down on wanting a kit lynch, claim Kit has done something scummy (but give no evidence), ask me to put my case on you out there
What even was the point of this post, besides trying to save your own skin? You're literally not adding anything to the game here. You kill a bunch of dialogue by answering questions in a closed way and then ask me to do something that I said I was going to do anyway.
If there's a common pattern to notice in your posts, it's that you're not interested in what other players are doing or thinking so far as it doesn't directly concern what they are thinking and saying about you. There are a billion and one players in this game you could make an airtight case to lynch, and you chose to sit on two of them and do nothing with it. You don't press them for information. You don't ask around. You don't care about the players who are producing content if they're not talking to you, and you don't care about the players who aren't if they're not webadict or Kit. The only real difference between Webadict and FoU for most of this time is that webadict was shitting out metaposts. You say literally nothing about FoU, who is lurking to this day (he has, quite literally, done nothing but vote people for being inactive despite currently being the least active player in the game). You do nothing to make anyone other than you want to vote for Kit or Webadict, and your only real motivation for voting them seems to be that it's plausible that they're scum. That's a motivation which makes people vote for players so that they can find out if those players are scum, either by pressuring them into answering questions or by killing them with the lynch. You're not asking questions, and you're not rallying for support to lynch either of them, so it doesn't feel like your vote is there to do either of those things. Really, I see you sitting there and it just seems like you're trying to look as inconspicuous as possible without becoming noticed for your absence.
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dolores

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Re: TricMagic's ByoS Mafia: Stacking the Deck(10/10)
« Reply #239 on: March 27, 2019, 06:24:14 am »

Roseheart
Now here's some crazy shit.
The thing to keep in mind with Roseheart is that throughout this entire period they have been super active on the rest of the forum, so it's virtually assured that their playstyle is 100% intentional and not a product of their context
Their first three posts are late into the thread and basically just shitposting. They do ask the (by then) totally inactive FoU a question, but it's not like it was ever followed up so we can pretty well discount that.
Then they explicitly claim that they aren't part of the town.
Yeah. I don't even know what this is about.
Then they spend the next two posts insisting that they know how to play mafia and that what they have been doing is deliberate.
He OMGUS's Nirur and then almost straight away tries to take it back without elaborating as to why while displaying a total lack of familiarity with how mafia is played on B12 (here and here), which is just filler I guess since that's to be expected (during RVS, but still) and

Fuck, I missed a bunch of their posts.
It's legitimately easier to just re-read the entire thread to look for their posts than to go through their post history. They're insanely active on the rest of B12. Their play is actually deliberate. It's fucking surreal.

So I missed the triplepost where they make some vague claims about having a power triggered by their death while doubling down on the idea that their not posting is productive and a good idea.
It's uh.
Look, I can't see Roseheart ever being a productive member of the town. They're adamant that they know what they're doing but have no interest in what's going on in the town beyond their own abilities. Besides talking about their own abilities, I don't know what they'd bring to the table even if they were a confirmed townie.

Now, the scum theory. This idea relies on the fact that roseheart has such a foreign playstyle that they're so aggressively confident in. Foreign mafia forums do have a lot of shitty metaplays. Foreign mafia forums do have a lot of shitty setups with things like traditional (game-ending) jesters. It's believable that roseheart would expect the rest of us to be worried about jesters, and the delayed "hi" (remember, roseheart was on B12 during this time, just not in the thread) and claims about preferring inactivity in the midst of a lot of posts about the need for more activity seem like a deliberate setup to look like they're trying to get lynched. In this case, roseheart would be making a play whereby they're baiting town into not lynching them out of fear of a jester. They might even be some crazy wifom shit like a mafia warvet or unkillable. I don't think they're a jester though, and I don't think anyone who's used to the B12 meta would either.

Regardless of their alignment, roseheart is fucking useless.
I can't conceive of a scenario where their play so far (deliberate, keep in mind) is helpful to any member of the town. It seems reasonable to expect that they're non-town, unless they're just outright trolling.
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