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Author Topic: Stacking armor...still works?  (Read 1973 times)

ragincajun

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Stacking armor...still works?
« on: August 23, 2018, 05:57:00 pm »

Does stacking armor still work in the newest version? 
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2018, 06:16:00 pm »

Where?
In a pile? On a Dwarf? On an armour stand? During adventurer?
Each has its own rules and bugs, mostly covered on the wiki.

And define "still". What "worked" for you? When?
Compared with 44.11, nothing has changed. Compared with ten years ago? Probably quite different.
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mikekchar

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2018, 07:05:11 pm »

I think they probably mean can you wear 5 shields, etc.  I believe you can not any more.  There are rules for what you can wear over top of something else, although it can get fairly ridiculous (like you can apparently wear 5 crowns).  Having said that, the combat mechanics are quite different than before and mobility is fairly important, so wearing too much armour is not necessarily good.

So if your question is, can you still cheese the system by wearing ridiculous amounts of armour, I think the answer is mostly no.  Or at least I haven't heard of that kind of thing for a long time.
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ragincajun

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2018, 08:47:42 pm »

 Yeah it’s been about nine or 10 months since I last played. So just updated a few weeks ago. Last time I checked you could wear three mail shirts and then one breast plate or something like that and then three hoods and a helmet.
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Bumber

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2018, 08:51:47 pm »

Yeah it’s been about nine or 10 months since I last played. So just updated a few weeks ago. Last time I checked you could wear three mail shirts and then one breast plate or something like that and then three hoods and a helmet.
Still can.
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NTJedi

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2018, 01:24:42 am »

Yeah it’s been about nine or 10 months since I last played. So just updated a few weeks ago. Last time I checked you could wear three mail shirts and then one breast plate or something like that and then three hoods and a helmet.
There's plenty of exploits in the game... I would not use anything which was illogical to gain an unfair advantage such as wearing three types of one piece of armor.  Taking advantages of game exploits removes the real challenges and less immersion into the game. 
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2018, 02:11:32 am »

It's not unusual for military type visitor (including merchant guards) to move very slowly due to wearing 3 mail shirts (and other armor) while having no armor use kill.
I'm not aware of anything having changed regarding clothing in the last year (armor/weapon wear was probably the latest change).
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Telgin

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2018, 11:27:16 am »

Related to this topic, I'm curious how effective multiple layers of armor is now that attacks can transfer force to body parts through armor and break limbs or joints.  I suspect that multiple mail shirts will be more of a liability due to slowing the dwarf down now, although multiple hoods may still be beneficial.  I'm not sure how hoods interact with the wrenching mechanic.
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Bumber

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2018, 08:40:33 am »

I would not use anything which was illogical to gain an unfair advantage such as wearing three types of one piece of armor.
Is it really illogical, or just contrary to the standard video game model of equipment? Mail isn't that thick, and you could very plausibly fit 3 layers. The weight is another matter, but DF already takes that into account.

Historically, you'd maybe use quilted armor underneath your mail or breastplate, for penetration protection and comfort. DF doesn't really simulate the protection offered by multi-layered cloth yet.
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Mort Stroodle

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2018, 06:47:03 pm »

I think letting players wear a few layers of leather under their armor is reasonable, padding is definitely a thing in real historic warfare. But three mail shirts seems pretty silly, that much mail would weigh you down so damn much. I don't ever use multiple mail shirts, IDK if the weight system makes it ineffective anyway, but if it's not much of hinderence then that feels like an exploit to me.
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Bumber

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 09:05:32 pm »

It's less silly in a world with megabeasts and superdwarvenly strength. If you were Hercules, except you could die by arrow, you'd definitely be wearing 3 mail shirts and a breastplate.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:09:07 pm by Bumber »
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THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 11:25:18 pm »

It does weight them down; you can see it in arena when you set groups of armoured and unarmoured dwarves to spar/fight; even with legendary armor user the armored ones get tired soon-ish while unarmored ones don't.

Of course, if wearing multiple layers of armour is an exploit because it protects you more, wearing armour at all is an exploit because it protects you more :P (jk, I do get the objection against 10 cloaks even if I do regularly wear up to six layers of cloth in winter myself, with no plans to engage in combat)

Not that 2 extra mail shirts do a lot to protect you from megabeasts hits, given they're blunt.

NTJedi

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2018, 11:47:00 pm »

(jk, I do get the objection against 10 cloaks even if I do regularly wear up to six layers of cloth in winter myself, with no plans to engage in combat)
I can understand someone wearing three layers of socks and three sweatshirts in a cold location under some armor in real life, but you'd never see someone with 6 leather robes under some armor all at the same time because that person would have zero mobility for moving arms.  This would especially be true for a dwarf(midget) since the length of arms are even smaller.  So I personally would never take advantage of this game exploit simply because the developers haven't fixed the reality of the situation.   
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2018, 12:00:42 am »

I think the developers intended the reality of the situation (not exactly disagreeing, here). A developer had to code in the moddable default permit and layering values of equipment and also encumberance from how much armor slows you down and armor user skill to mitigate it.

There's probably some armour mods that follow your spirit of "no, those values are nonsense".

I don't have any robes, but if I didn't want to be pinched or stabbed I'd probably want something less easily penetrated than the usual undershirt/long shirt x2/sweater/tunic/jacket when it is cold out. Of course, that's assuming I'd be relatively still - actually running in combat in warmer climate would figuratively overheat with that, which is a missing feature.

anewaname

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Re: Stacking armor...still works?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2018, 10:47:52 am »

A mail shirt extends over the arms, legs, and neck, and a portion of its weight is assigned to each body part. Having more weight on a body part probably reduces tearing damage.

The momentum (from being struck) is applied to a greater mass, so it imparts a lower velocity to that body part, so the dwarf has time to shift their center of mass to protect their joints from tearing.
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