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[TricMagic]

TBF, can we get a list on your reads?

Also, every vote on me has not shifted since then..

Caz, please join us in some way.
Ninja.

[TheBiggerFish]

Unvote.  TricMagic has redeveloped sanity, it seems.

heydude6, where are you?

[Shakerag]

webadict:

I feel like you're the only one that gives me the credit I'm due. I didn't want to argue with it, but I'm actually in agreement with you for the most part. Typically, my greatest flaw isn't that I can't emotionally tie my feelings into my argument. It's that I have a failure of continually doing so genuinely because I don't have any when I'm scum.

But, I do appreciate that someone is actually finding me a viable threat.

Oh, I missed this.  First, isn't that exactly what scum!webadict would want me to believe?  Secondly, you're always a threat.  Unless I know you're 100% on my team.  And maybe even then you still are.

Persus' role is probably anti-Town. His alignment... is also probably anti-Town, but not because of the role.

Huh.  I'm surprised at this answer, because I figured you wouldn't try to play "outguess the mod".

Perhaps you missed it, but the Day actually ended yesterday. You can stop random voting, Deus Asmoth Deus Asmoth. You've been pretty lowkey this game, haven't you?

There's several lowkey players in this game.  Why Deus?  Why not Caz who just up and stated they're abandoning D2? 



TheBiggerFish:

Unvote.  TricMagic has redeveloped sanity, it seems.

heydude6, where are you?

Seriously?  A pressure vote on a lurker?  You couldn't find anything more productive to do with your time?

[TricMagic]

I more wonder why he thinks I'm sane now. I was making wild theories on the lower capital "p".


Fun fact though, he did say no one would follow his vote on Persus Day 1. And now he's starting a vote on heydude with no hesitance. I mean, it has been a while since he was on, but still. Caz seems the more dangerous of the two, and hector was one of my town-reads. Heydude hasn't really registered as scum for me either.

[heydude6]

piratejob:
I just want to say that you're like one of the first newbies we've had in the longest time that doesn't immediately strike me as more useless than tits on a bull.  Pleas stick around.

Lol, thanks. But considering my role in MaximumSpin's death I guess the criticism isn't undeserved.

Anyway, now that I'm here I might as well address some of the questions asked about me.

I also know he has no posting restriction because there have been 3 posts made that don't have rhymes. Now, it's entirely possible that there's a system in place to allow certain actions based on rhyming posts, but he's not forced to post in rhyme.

That's true. I don't have to rhyme, but I'm heavily incentivized to do so. Thankfully I'm allowed a little leeway which I am using to make writing this post easier.

Hey, dude; 6!:

I have no idea if we are allowed to post during twilight, but Fallacy hasn't yet come in and criticized this fight
If I can be attacked, then I can also defend. So I will share my reasoning, for causing MaxSpin's end.

To begin, you must know. there was a gap of 16 minutes until I decided to go.

2:45 - 2:29 = 0:16

When I made my first post, I was extremely worried.
The day would end early, if no one unvoted and hurried.

I saw some interesting voting habits, when I did my count
There were some users who acted suspicious, a fair amount

Would you like to expand on this?

Sure. As I explained in the following paragraph of that post you quoted (though you mysteriously left it out), I was mainly talking about TricMagic.

I saw some interesting voting habits, when I did my count
There were some users who acted suspicious, a fair amount

Though nothing was certain
Truth was shrouded in a curtain
But I thought it would be tragic
if we didn't at least look a bit more at TricMagic

When I did my votecount, I started from the one FoU did on page 11 and I looked at all the votes and revotes people made from there. This is what TricMagic did:

1. After Teneb revealed Persus13's role name and placed a vote to pressure him to post, TricMagic placed a vote as well and convinced The Bigger Fish to join in on the bandwagon
2. Once votes started to pile on MaximumSpin (mainly for calling Teneb a liar and advocating to lynch him), TricMagic joined that Bandwagon as well. When Tric was specifically questioned about his MaxSpin vote, he answered it by saying:

Don't you have a reason for voting MaxSpin?

Reason 1: No Lynch means Mafia gets to kill someone AND Steal all their Money. This is bad.

Reason 2: I have no use for that Item on bid, but Mafia does. I would rather see it gone than sold.

Reason 3:

I don't really care about this whole "unnecessary hostility" theme going on. Point is, Teneb claims Sheldon messaged him, and Sheldon definitely didn't message him. Maybe someone else messaged him? It is a mystery. Let's find out by killing him, like with whales.

Reason 1 is another example of what I will call the "But it will tie the vote!" fallacy, that a lot of people have been using this game, which webadict already demolished in a previous post.

Reason 2 is about the his bid so it's irrelevant

Reason 3 is just a quote from MaximumSpin with no original thoughts of his own. It really feeds into the idea that Tric was just voting for a bandwagon without fully understanding why it was formed in this first place.

In hindsight, those habits I noticed aren't really as damning as I thought they were. I was kind of wrapped up in the Tric hate mob like a lot of people were:

TricMagic – scummy. doesn’t scumhunt, just wants to lynch whoever looks worst in the moment. Gives no reasoning for their votes either. Still hasn’t answered my question.

Persus, a better vote than anything else in info gained.

Fish, you may want to actually push, not just wait..

Just voting me isn't actually pushing dude. You're just bandwagoning. And for that you get a vote TricMagic, because I can't recall a single way you've contributed to this game. Which is what lurking really means.

Right, new stuff.

*snip*

Cool, before we get too far away, you wanna list some reasons why? Since leaving little bits like this are nice when they contain reasoning, ya dig? I like knowing what you're pointing out so I can verily destroy it, lest it fester like a gangrenous wound. Also, you are voting for Maximum Spin for no real reason either. Wanna bandwagon using someone else's reason, or are we playing the long con of pseudo lurking?

and I didn't investigate thoroughly enough.

I missed a key piece of context for the persus13 vote. Originally I only looked at Tric's "wonderfully explained":

Persus, a better vote than anything else in info gained.

and didn't notice the fact that Teneb started it to get persus13 out of lurking. I didn't realize TricMagic was just supporting Teneb's initiative, which ultimately did get persus13 to finally post.

Thing is, I'm not sure if TricMagic is scum, but what I am sure of is that he isn't a good player. He rarely explains the reasons for his actions, and when he does they are often poorly thought out. And worst of all, he never makes his own scumhunting initiatives, instead only choosing to back the efforts of others.

[heydude6]

Oh dear, I took too long to make this post and now I've been ninjaed accusations. (If you don't believe it was Ninja, look at the times again)

Unvote.  TricMagic has redeveloped sanity, it seems.

heydude6, where are you?

I was trying to make a case against Caz, but after looking through his posts there isn't enough substance in them. Unlike Tric though, Caz at least mounts an adequate defense when he is accused.

You are way too focused on the money aspect of the game imo. Maybe that it because of your role being focused on it, whatever. Maybe it's because you're scum.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't "money" one of the two major themes of the game?  Why is focusing on a major aspect of the game not desirable?

Shakerag, if you put in the rest of the quote, you would have already had the answer to your question.

You are way too focused on the money aspect of the game imo. Maybe that it because of your role being focused on it, whatever. Maybe it's because you're scum.

Scum have the obvious disadvantage in numbers of powers since they have less people. You say yourself that auctions are the way that scum can get up to par. They have a mechanic to specifically do this in that they can transfer money between themselves. Although this could make it a possibility that they would lose all their money in one turn (transferring it to one player, one gets lynched) they should still gain enough each day to outbid a normal person. BUT, bidding so much on an item would add the suspicion of being scum to that person as only scum would be able to bid above $50 d1, $70 d2, etc. So I don't think there is ACTUALLY a danger of scum gaining the items over town because they wouldn't want to outbid town because they look like scum in doing so.

This doesn't count day1 obviously because it's before any moneysharing can take place.

Your extra money ability is either a (frankly unnecessary given what I just explained) counter to scum being able to share their money so you can outbid them, or an excuse for why you will be bidding large amounts on items in the future that allows you to avoid looking like your scum members just gave you all their $$ to buy it.

Shakerag, why did you quote Caz out of context to make an accusation?

heydude6, you're Town, correct?

Yeah

[Shakerag]

piratejoe:

Ignoring the sarcasm of the inspects, I honestly know only a few things about you, those being you are fairly active, you are very aggressive in your hunting, and your position seems to have changed on TBF. And from what I can gather considering the Mafia cant actually kill anyone at night, the best way to get people killed is during the day when you can build up a claim and throw them under the bus, of course, towny's would do that too but...I just feel you are a bit too aggressive and quick to point the finger. Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually saying "LYNCH HIM NOW!" I'm just saying I'm leaning toward you being scum at the moment, but I can completely accept being wrong. I just like to be open about the people I'm a bit sus of.

Tell me what you think about this philosophy of thought:  "It is harder for scum to be very active, because as a role that has to keep a secret from everyone else the more they post the greater the chance they could say something that outs themselves as scum.  On the flipside, players who mostly lurk have little content to determine motives from, and that makes them look more suspicious."

I'm not saying whether or not I agree with any or all of that, I just want you to analyze it.


heydude6:

Thing is, I'm not sure if TricMagic is scum, but what I am sure of is that he isn't a good player. He rarely explains the reasons for his actions, and when he does they are often poorly thought out. And worst of all, he never makes his own scumhunting initiatives, instead only choosing to back the efforts of others.

Ok, so, cool, you murdered a lot of words to tell us you're not sure if TricMagic is scum or not.  So who are your top two picks for scumminess right now?

Shakerag, why did you quote Caz out of context to make an accusation?

I ... don't think ... that was an accusation?  I just wanted to press him on the topic to elaborate a bit more.  Also, his explanation seems to make an argument for being focused on the money aspect of the game:  it can potentially detect the scumteam shuffling around funds.

heydude6, you're Town, correct?

Yeah

Oh good; that issue is settled!  Hey everyone, heydude6 is confirmed town!

[Deus Asmoth]

Tric:

I'm pretty sure I actually did.

You didn't, FYI. It was pretty easy to check, as well. Or did you mean you did something that you feel should constitute an answer?

Heydude:

Hey, dude; 6!:

I have no idea if we are allowed to post during twilight, but Fallacy hasn't yet come in and criticized this fight
If I can be attacked, then I can also defend. So I will share my reasoning, for causing MaxSpin's end.

To begin, you must know. there was a gap of 16 minutes until I decided to go.

2:45 - 2:29 = 0:16

When I made my first post, I was extremely worried.
The day would end early, if no one unvoted and hurried.

I saw some interesting voting habits, when I did my count
There were some users who acted suspicious, a fair amount

Would you like to expand on this?

Sure. As I explained in the following paragraph of that post you quoted (though you mysteriously left it out), I was mainly talking about TricMagic.

I left it out because you were only talking about Tric. The only other players you mentioned were Spin himself and Webadict (who you haven't indicated being suspicious of). "Some" typically means "more than one", hence why I wanted more detail after you only mentioning one player.

[TricMagic]

It does not help when I've been trying to get a simple vote going on Persus.. Caz too. And MaxSpin was acting a bit strange, too outlandish.

I still don't quite get why he would spend 50$ on an extra action. His skipping of today just seems like duck and cover.

Ninja.. Grabbing the post.

[TricMagic]

Right, new stuff.

Mafia lead- Caz, MaxSpin, Webaddict.

Town Leans- Hector, now heydude.


Icytea, says he'll roleblock. Someone track him tonight to see if he actually goes out somewhere.


Also, an unblockable item is best served with a 0$ bid. That and a lynch to end the day before it's sold. Destroy the Item!

,,, You want how I feel on him, here is the relevant post that answered that. There's also Web, always web.

[Persus13]

Things that stood out for TBF:
 - He is actually trying harder since his meltdown.
 - He melted down because he didn't have anyone to back him up or to vent his frustrations to.
 - He seems legitimately surprised I am defending him.

Would you say that TBF's asking people to vote for me so he could is a sign of being town, because he asked in thread, and not in the scum chat?

and didn't notice the fact that Teneb started it to get persus13 out of lurking. I didn't realize TricMagic was just supporting Teneb's initiative, which ultimately did get persus13 to finally post.

I didn't post because Teneb voted me. I posted because I had an hour of internet access on a weekend I was out of town. I'm sick of hearing this.

Shakerag: Is your line of question towards IcyTea because you believe Wedadict or IcyTea are scum?

Fallacy: Is it possible to have a cult present in this game?

Anyone: Is there a functioning lurkertracker available somewhere that folks are using? I could really use it right about now.

Ninja:

I still don't quite get why he would spend 50$ on an extra action. His skipping of today just seems like duck and cover.

Why wouldn't you spend money to get an extra action?

Also, that post is from September 25th. Shakerag asked you his question on September 27.

[TricMagic]

As for Top 2. Well, how about a current instead.


Mafia-lead: Caz, Persus/Teneb, Webaddict.


Town-lean: Sheldon, Heydude.


The reason for Web is all the posturing mostly. Then there is TBH who seems to be set on just voting people out, but once more, that will just seem to be repeated info.
Nin. Hello Persus.

[TricMagic]

I just don't get why he seems to think my scum read on him changed at all. Case in point above.

[Shakerag]

Persus13:

Shakerag: Is your line of question towards IcyTea because you believe Wedadict or IcyTea are scum?

I don't necessarily right now, but I think IcyTea's way of looking at things (or, specifically webadict) is potentially dangerous.  I think IcyTea is underestimating how well some of us can lie/act.  webadict wasn't King of the Mafia for a long time for nothing.

What is your take on the "webadict is acting too emotional to not be town" view?

[piratejoe]

Fair enough. I am the most likely person to slip into a Town group through lying. I've done it before. It's not especially difficult. But, alas, I can't this time because I'm not scum.

My goal isn't necessarily to convince you I'm Town. My goal is to prove myself invaluable and thus a poor target to lynch otherwise. Also, eventually, someone will indubitably inspect me and confirm my alignment. Boom, problem solved.

You can never trust me. I mean, what's the difference between a Townie and a Godfather?

I feel that's an issue though. If no one trusts you, even if you make yourself seem invaluable, you will start to look invaluable to the scum through misdirection and not invaluable to the town through actual proper hunting. As for inspecting you and confirming your alignment, well...That requires us to trust two people, which can grow to a big clustertruck if two people jump out and one says towny and the other says scum.

Ah, you think I trust IcyTea. No, see, he has failed the test multiple times. I merely WANT to trust him because he's so active.

Your line of logic doesn't include the same initial statements that mine does. Your conclusion is built around incomplete data.

The goal is that a bandwagon will form on one of TBF or TricMagic.

I think TricMagic might be suspicious, but the bandwagons building on both are incongruous to something the Town would do.

Surprisingly, I'm in agreement with Sheldon. I think he might be right on the 5 scum thing. That's why tactics need to change ASAP. That's why I can't let you lynch TBF.

Things that stood out for TBF:
 - He is actually trying harder since his meltdown.
 - He melted down because he didn't have anyone to back him up or to vent his frustrations to.
 - He seems legitimately surprised I am defending him.

I do not want him lynched. He is not the same as Maximum Spin anymore. Maximum Spin will always postulate I'm scum until the game ends, and I did get him lynched, so that's fair, but I absolutely wanted him to fight for his life and show he was Town. I gave him several chances because I started to doubt he was scum towards the end, but his insistence on being anti-Town just kept kicking my suspicion right in the gonads.

So, I will only say, please pick another target. You could even pick me. But, do NOT lynch TBF. If I were scum, his lynch would be easy. There's enough there to lynch him without a single protest from Town. It is absolutely trivial to even consider how fast he could be lynched.

Thats fair enough, it did seem like you trusted tea to an extent but thanks for clearing that up, I'll believe you in that at the very least. I will say however that you aren't the second place on my list so I'm not going to pick you for lynching, at least not yet, in fact I'm waiting till the day is coming to a close to make my vote as I want to be able to make a decision at a better time...That and I don't want to vote for someone, forget it or think I changed my vote, and accidentally get someone I wanted alive killed. Personally, I do agree with you on the Sheldon and bandwagoning thing as I don't actually think Tricmagic is scum...

Tell me what you think about this philosophy of thought:  "It is harder for scum to be very active, because as a role that has to keep a secret from everyone else the more they post the greater the chance they could say something that outs themselves as scum.  On the flipside, players who mostly lurk have little content to determine motives from, and that makes them look more suspicious."

I'm not saying whether or not I agree with any or all of that, I just want you to analyze it.

I think that philosophy of thought is...true to an extent. A new or inexperienced person would certainty have a harder time staying very active without accidentally spilling a few beans but a skilled player would be null and void from that line of thought. I do think Lurkers are sus however, as it seems like a good tactic to get people to not notice you...well...up until they do notice you. I feel that its related, and I'd like to say that I would like Caz to actually speak and defend himself as he hasn't been on in a while, he is on my five person list, and while he is number five at the moment, I'd rather not elevate him to number 3 or 2 when he is town because he was taking a nap...