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[webadict]

To be honest, there isn't really any problem in that, is there? Finding people you can actually trust is just as important as finding those you are certain are scum as it narrows down the list of potential suspects, though, naturally I would be a bit more stingy in who I trust then you are to be honest. Still, if we can get a proper voting block and figure out who the town is we can easily win the game, though of course, the issue in that is simply getting everyone to agree and obviously not accidentally letting a non town in. I'm glad you trust me, but I'm still unsure about you, to me you are either a very active hunter or the local bus driver, and for the moment I'm going lean toward the side of caution. As for IcyTea, while not the most sus in my mind, he is leaning on that side to me, but I'm still not certain on all but one thing...

Fair enough. I am the most likely person to slip into a Town group through lying. I've done it before. It's not especially difficult. But, alas, I can't this time because I'm not scum.

My goal isn't necessarily to convince you I'm Town. My goal is to prove myself invaluable and thus a poor target to lynch otherwise. Also, eventually, someone will indubitably inspect me and confirm my alignment. Boom, problem solved.

You can never trust me. I mean, what's the difference between a Townie and a Godfather?

But, I'm off-topic here. Really, the point is that I actually don't think your line of logic is wrong, but its conclusion is. TBF is the least likely person to be scum to me, and it's for the same reason that IcyTea thinks I'm not scum. And because your logic isn't wrong, I can't fault you. You're going after someone you think is suspicious and you're not afraid to take criticism for it because you're... well, probably Town. I can't even say that you're backing down because you're not.

But, I will stop you from doing so anyway I can. I hope you don't mind.

And thats TBF. But I have to ask, if my line of logic isn't incorrect, then in what way would my conclusion be wrong? I mean, you explained why you think he isn't scum and I understand where you are coming from but that could also just be a cover, after all the two people you started off suspecting the most are now most trusted and semi trusted, which to me kinda seems like an act to say "We aren't scum, see, we argued and disagreed to the point where we called each other scum before we became friends!" In fact, that's my biggest worry about you and tea to be honest, to me it seems convenient and is one of the more major reasons you are on my little five person list...Maybe I'm too paranoid, but right now I'm confident I'm not and am going to stick to my guns in that regard.

Ah, you think I trust IcyTea. No, see, he has failed the test multiple times. I merely WANT to trust him because he's so active.

Your line of logic doesn't include the same initial statements that mine does. Your conclusion is built around incomplete data.

The goal is that a bandwagon will form on one of TBF or TricMagic.

I think TricMagic might be suspicious, but the bandwagons building on both are incongruous to something the Town would do.

Surprisingly, I'm in agreement with Sheldon. I think he might be right on the 5 scum thing. That's why tactics need to change ASAP. That's why I can't let you lynch TBF.

Things that stood out for TBF:
 - He is actually trying harder since his meltdown.
 - He melted down because he didn't have anyone to back him up or to vent his frustrations to.
 - He seems legitimately surprised I am defending him.

I do not want him lynched. He is not the same as Maximum Spin anymore. Maximum Spin will always postulate I'm scum until the game ends, and I did get him lynched, so that's fair, but I absolutely wanted him to fight for his life and show he was Town. I gave him several chances because I started to doubt he was scum towards the end, but his insistence on being anti-Town just kept kicking my suspicion right in the gonads.

So, I will only say, please pick another target. You could even pick me. But, do NOT lynch TBF. If I were scum, his lynch would be easy. There's enough there to lynch him without a single protest from Town. It is absolutely trivial to even consider how fast he could be lynched.

...wait what the fuck

Why is wuba endorsing me I don't trust this

...still want TricMagic dead more than I don't trust this though, since as far as I've seen they haven't changed, so I'm not going to change my vote.

Keep trying hard, and you'll get support. The only way for people to recognize your achievements is to have some.

I will say that TricMagic is a tad suspicious, but I think he's not the right person to focus on. I think he would be a better choice for Tomorrow or Day 4, after a scum player has been lynched. He isn't enough of a threat to lynch.

There are other, more serious targets. I am under the belief that Deus Asmoth is scum, and I will attempt a decent case as to why later today, when I'm done driving for hours to and from school.

If you want the Town to win, TBF, you will be needed.

[Deus Asmoth]

Webadict:

Your vote is random because TBF isn't likely to be scum.

You thinking that TBF isn't scum doesn't make my vote random. If you have a problem with my reasons for voting for him you could discuss that instead of claiming I randomly chose him.

Key point is that TBF is starting to throw out (admittedly small) points that can be used for cases.

I'm actually curious about what support you have for this claim. The only case TBF is currently pursuing is on Tric, and TBF himself admits that he doesn't actually care whether or not Tric is scum. The only posts he's made recently that aren't about bids or single sentence reactions were the ones where he was directly responding to people voting for him or your post about not wanting people to vote for him, and both of those posts were entirely lacking in substance aside from complaining about Tric some more and allusions to having an investigation ability. So what do you see that he's doing which is of any use to making a case?

[webadict]

Webadict:

Your vote is random because TBF isn't likely to be scum.

You thinking that TBF isn't scum doesn't make my vote random. If you have a problem with my reasons for voting for him you could discuss that instead of claiming I randomly chose him.

Key point is that TBF is starting to throw out (admittedly small) points that can be used for cases.

I'm actually curious about what support you have for this claim. The only case TBF is currently pursuing is on Tric, and TBF himself admits that he doesn't actually care whether or not Tric is scum. The only posts he's made recently that aren't about bids or single sentence reactions were the ones where he was directly responding to people voting for him or your post about not wanting people to vote for him, and both of those posts were entirely lacking in substance aside from complaining about Tric some more and allusions to having an investigation ability. So what do you see that he's doing which is of any use to making a case?

One post up, guy.

But, frankly, if I had to put my money on one thing that I truly disliked about you is that I don't think you think TheBiggerFish is scum. Like you are performing an elaborate charade, using the smile of a waitress who needs a tip. You don't feel genuine or authentic.

That's a hard charge to prove and an even harder charge to disprove, amirite? But, again, gotta drive here, so I'll get a post some time today.

You are just so... passive.

[Deus Asmoth]

Your post above claims that TBF is trying harder, that he melted down with you because he had no support and that he's surprised you're defending him. The first part is unsubstantiated on your part, and you claiming it a second time doesn't make me more likely to believe it. The second part is pure conjecture. The third part... so what?

As for disproving your charge, I assume you're familiar with Hitchen's Razor.

[IcyTea31]

Luckily, Shakerag's here, so I can definitely use him, but he's got this thing where he's gotta drink a bunch to be Town, which reeeally downs his scumhunting game (but significantly ups his burn game.)

This implies that you trust Shakerag. How can you be certain he's on your side?

jesus on a camel.  what the fuck is wrong with you people.  webadict doesn't need to be a psychopath, just an acchoplished liar.  Which, frankly, any good scum should be.  This is a game in which uou have players that are trying to hunt scum, and scum players who are trying to look like they're hunting scum.  It's like you've never encountered dishonest people in your life before.  FOR FUCKS SAKE.  Think of what you think would be the town thing to do.  DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THT SCUM WOULD BE TRYING TO DO THE SAME THING TO LOOK LIKE TOWN?  I cannot explain this any more plainly.  OI mean I'm not necessaril;y saying webadict is scum, but you just can't blindly plaint him as town either.  I AM TRYING OT HELP YOU BREAK BAD HABITS FFS.

Do you understand the difference between intuition-based and logic-based reads? My case against Caz is of the latter kind. My case for webadict is of the former kind. His town read is not some blindly-decided objective truth, but my subjective hunch based on the subtle tests I included in the argument. It is inherently uncertain and subject to change as the game advances.
Yes, scum would try to mislead me. But to "do the same thing to look like town" would take a liar accomplished enough to be called a psychopath, in which case it would be completely pointless to talk to webadict. For now, I'm fine with leaving the dial on "town" until more reliable data can be brought in.

Maximum Spin will always postulate I'm scum until the game ends, and I did get him lynched...

Hold up, cowboy. Spin got Spin lynched. Your contributions did play a part, but they weren't the deciding factor for even half the final votes.

Further insights later, I've got a bit of a busy weekend coming.

[Shakerag]

IcyTea31

My case for webadict is of the former kind. His town read is not some blindly-decided objective truth, but my subjective hunch based on the subtle tests I included in the argument. It is inherently uncertain and subject to change as the game advances.

So long story short, you have a gut feeling webadict is town. 

Yes, scum would try to mislead me. But to "do the same thing to look like town" would take a liar accomplished enough to be called a psychopath, in which case it would be completely pointless to talk to webadict.

So riddle me this:  Why are mountainous games more often won by scum than town?

But anecdotally, I know I have played games in which I was completely floored by who was scum.  Also, there's this from way back in 2009:

Yes, the web/pandarsenic fight was the first documented staged fight between scum.

Colored and bolded for hilarity.

shitfaced rambling

So, now that I have my notes, I'll expand on what I said last night.  Why TBF is presently standing out to me as the scummiest:
1) The whole thing day one when he was flipping out over webadict tying the vote even though the day end deadline was a while off yet.  Which kind of leads into...
2) His frequent attention calls to the "mafia get to kill anyone no-lynch rule".  Which just come across to me as the "helpful" sort of thing scum does when trying to be a good little townie.
3) I called this out earlier, but his lack of voting Persus13 because he didn't think anyone would vote with him.  Comes across as not so much feeling Persus13 was scum enough to lynch, but that TBF was just looking for someone/anyone to get lynched.
4) Awfully quick to jump on the Maximum Spin train after webadict voted him (and I think this was before his rez power was revealed).

[TricMagic]

Given I voted Persus right after that, and he still didn't do anything.

Fallacy, can we get a vote count?

[TricMagic]

Page 14

As a refresher.

[Shakerag]

TricMagic:

TricMagic:

Caz has literally thrown off day 2 with this post. I am not getting anything from voting him, because he has just said he's done with today.

So a player has just called out that they're going to be no or low participation for the next day intentionally.  Do you find that scummy or not?  If yes, what will you do about it?

You still haven't answered this.

[TricMagic]

I'm pretty sure I actually did.. Do you want to lynch him? If not, I can't get him without him posting. And I already argued about spending 50$ for that extra action.

for gods sakes wuba

fucking stop

just

fucking

stop

I'm done.  If play continues to be this I'm done.  It's not good for my health.

FoU: I am strongly considering replacement.  Do you have someone in reserve?

Also: hector has a point.

So, instead of debating this in the thread, I'ma take this private.

What did this mean Web? Is that why you call him town now.

[webadict]

for gods sakes wuba

fucking stop

just

fucking

stop

I'm done.  If play continues to be this I'm done.  It's not good for my health.

FoU: I am strongly considering replacement.  Do you have someone in reserve?

Also: hector has a point.

So, instead of debating this in the thread, I'ma take this private.

What did this mean Web? Is that why you call him town now.

Well, well, well, someone is doing their research alongside Blackbeard. See, this is part of why I don't want you lynched.

Here's kinda the problem with me explaining this statement. Everything I say about it is not game-related. I also feel it may be a combination of cheating and violating privacy to post anything about it in the game.

I will only say this: I PMed TBF about the issue in the game. I included FoU, just in case it would violate game rules. I will not post the PMs. That will be all.

[webadict]

Luckily, Shakerag's here, so I can definitely use him, but he's got this thing where he's gotta drink a bunch to be Town, which reeeally downs his scumhunting game (but significantly ups his burn game.)

This implies that you trust Shakerag. How can you be certain he's on your side?

Oh, no, I meant now the game will have someone that will be mostly active, regardless of alignment. I don't really care if he's scum at the moment (though, currently my feelings are neutral, with a small side dish of slightly scum, which isn't much of anything at all). All that I care about is that I can have someone to argue with for a bit.

[Shakerag]

Well, since I compiled this for my own notes, unofficial votecount:

heydude6:
Shakerag:
TricMagic: teneb, Caz, TheBiggerFish
IcyTea31:
TheBiggerFish: Deus Asmoth, Shakerag
Caz: Persus13
Persus13: TricMagic
Deus Asmoth: webadict
piratejoe:
Sheldon:
webadict:
Teneb:

[TheBiggerFish]

Votecount, please.

[Shakerag]

Caz:

Congrats on filling the minimum effort needed for people to remember that you even participate. You answered a question, wow, such amaze.

This is kind of funny, when you consider:

Literally don't care anymore. Wake me up when it's day3.

So, are you going to formally replace out?  Or are you going to lurk like a little bitch?  You're voting for TricMagic and yet I don't see you providing more of anything of benefit than he is.  Less, even, since at least TricMagic has content for us to go over.