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[FantasticDorf]

This idea can comfortably wait for another 1-2 years for the relvant arc, so there's no enormous rush.

Initially it is to make a Minting sub profession for metalworkers, a metalworking profession specific to coins (and plate related metal artisan product) in the same way gemcutters are specific to minerals.

• Dwarves of high intelligence & kinesthetic skill will produce more detailed coins and the coins themselves are worth more individually a piece (rather than motary value) & are more exact to the specific details that matter.

• Poorly designed coins are worthless, and it may be the only profession where you may actuallly make a xxbrokenxx object initially on the first try due to uncreative & unskilled dwarves minting badly made coins. Which will give dwarves relevant bad thoughts until they become better at their craft, and the coins are automatically sorted to refuse where availible.

Minters are also responsible for medallions & commemorative coins which are special craft items

> Medals & medallions may be awarded to a dwarf as a motivation booster with a particular feat, and these inherit a special status of a historical object once assigned and will follow the dwarf much like a family heirloom. Certain historical figures may also either already possess medals because of their position, or have medals bestowed upon them by hist-figs.

> Commemorative coins are abstract non-acceptable currency coins that are a craft object, usually detailing a event, dwarves like to aquire these. Multiples of these may be made out of one bar so they can easily fufill many dwarves needs if they have coffer/chest space

Dwarves with sufficient levels in minting coins will also be able to author books and study scholar topics about the economy, since they have a inner knowledge of the currency they produce, similar to mechanics.

[Halnoth]

In my opinion a specific minting skill is not needed. Metalcrafting ought to suffice.

[Egan_BW]

"More skills" seems to be the direction that DF is taking. Like with "fighter" vs "swordsdwarf" skills, I imagine that both will matter for the task at hand, and both will gain experience from crafting coins.
I don't see why knowledge of the specifics of creating coins would make one qualified to write about The Economy, though. Maybe a lifetime of minting would reflect or bolster an interest in money, and thus also economics, but the two skills aren't really related.

[Bumber]

I don't see why minting coins would require any different skill from crafting a figurine. It's probably even simpler since you can mass produce them with a mold.

[Miles_Umbrae]

I don't see why minting coins would require any different skill from crafting a figurine. It's probably even simpler since you can mass produce them with a mold.

Coins aren't molded, they are punched, pressed or stamped(whichever you would call it).

[Halnoth]

I don't see why minting coins would require any different skill from crafting a figurine. It's probably even simpler since you can mass produce them with a mold.

Coins aren't molded, they are punched, pressed or stamped(whichever you would call it).

Bumber's point is still valid. Coins are fairly easy to mass produce.

[FantasticDorf]

I don't see why minting coins would require any different skill from crafting a figurine. It's probably even simpler since you can mass produce them with a mold.

Coins aren't molded, they are punched, pressed or stamped(whichever you would call it).

Bumber's point is still valid. Coins are fairly easy to mass produce.

A coin with no fine inscription, date or anything is worthless in common currency as it is to bartering the percieved value of blank metal pieces. Metalworkers also cover a wide range of objects so freeing them up from coins would allow economic coin minting specialists to immigrate and set to work upon creating a stable economy for a fortress rather than tasking smithies present in normally every metal-bearing settlement to be begrudged with the distracting task.

Like i mentioned a seperate level of expertise besides creativity & pure kinesthetic sense is required, a high degree of intelligence simillar to bookeepers and doctors in order to regulate and keep in check all the currency produced so it is in high quality & correct quantities. In itself while you can remark that coins are easy to mass produce, in 1400 terms with no mass printing, each coin would need to be either exact and to a high level of precision to ensure that they are legal to use and not counterfiet before mechanisation that came much much later.



Each coin would need to be cut, weighed, and pressed all by hand with the fault lying at the crafter this 14th century reproduction of the Tower of London's mint show's.

"More skills" seems to be the direction that DF is taking. Like with "fighter" vs "swordsdwarf" skills, I imagine that both will matter for the task at hand, and both will gain experience from crafting coins.
I don't see why knowledge of the specifics of creating coins would make one qualified to write about The Economy, though. Maybe a lifetime of minting would reflect or bolster an interest in money, and thus also economics, but the two skills aren't really related.

That's fair, but animal tamers, trappers & ambushers get the same advantages to talking about the field of natural science without actually partaking in that field only from a abstract point of view. There are a large amount of side practices such as the deliberately witholding and debasing currency that can affect a minter's livelyhood and hence gain a grasp of it, as well as important political figures such as economic counsel's to monarchs who usually are in direct charge of both running the Mint & managing the workers there directly invovled.


Easy reproduction of money today where there is a lot more wealth spread across all social divides (still not a lot in few places) is very much under appreciated when in the time setting of DF most of it was circulated both as political status & in the highest circles of society virtually exclusively without considerable links to aristocracy and lucrative trade crafts such as being a merchant or a in-demand business owner for vital goods like salt (preservative), leather & metal or owning land of some sort.

[Rowanas]

If coins are to be made of metal only, then I think I would prefer it to be rolled into metalworking, which is the most underused of the metal-related skills.  However, I would like to see coins made from any number of materials.  Technically, a coin made and backed by the value of copper is worth less than one made and backed by obsidian.

Especially when we consider the changes Toady (!Fun! be upon him) wants to make to the economy, it makes sense to allow any hard material to be used as coinage. Hell, in theory it doesn't even have to be hard - you could decree that your coins are made of wool, but that's probably not practical.  When material values and trade prices become determined by supply and demand as has been mentioned in the Trade Arc, we'll want to be able to determine which of our materials should be used as value money and which should be commodity money.

[FantasticDorf]

If coins are to be made of metal only, then I think I would prefer it to be rolled into metalworking, which is the most underused of the metal-related skills.  However, I would like to see coins made from any number of materials.  Technically, a coin made and backed by the value of copper is worth less than one made and backed by obsidian.

That can be done sort of already by changing some fields in entity.txt, but the skill can still be encompassed the same way we have wooden pedestals in the game currently as a additional reaction, handled by a crafter of the relevant material craft that gives part minting experience in equal parts to crafting experience as normal. Whatever material you make it out of it's going to remain essentially the same.

[Egan_BW]

Honestly I'd say that natural sciences, economics, and similar things also deserve skills of their own. Once the current "discoveries" system actually does something mechanically, that is.
Just like animal anatomy is likely something you'll learn about in the hunting profession, but doesn't actually have anything to do with aiming and shooting a crossbow, a coin minter is in a good position to learn things about the economy (both due to opportunity and need) but that knowledge isn't really gained by practicing coin minting itself.

[Miles_Umbrae]

I don't see why minting coins would require any different skill from crafting a figurine. It's probably even simpler since you can mass produce them with a mold.

Coins aren't molded, they are punched, pressed or stamped(whichever you would call it).

Bumber's point is still valid. Coins are fairly easy to mass produce.

I'm just being pedantic about the technical terminology.

[Bumber]

A coin with no fine inscription, date or anything is worthless in common currency as it is to bartering the percieved value of blank metal pieces. Metalworkers also cover a wide range of objects so freeing them up from coins would allow economic coin minting specialists to immigrate and set to work upon creating a stable economy for a fortress rather than tasking smithies present in normally every metal-bearing settlement to be begrudged with the distracting task.

What's the difference between having a dedicated minting specialist versus an extra metalworker, other than the fact that you can't use the minter for other tasks? Migrant minters would become the new cheese makers. You can set up workshop profiles if you want a dwarf dedicated to minting.

Skilled metalworkers are already making intricate designs as part of their work. It's sort of a given for dwarven values.

[FantasticDorf]

There's no personal problem with them being cheesemakers, that's the intention of specialising them in the same way we don't mix spinners & weavers together into the same profession for doing a job producing string (given that weavers already weave 3 different types)

It makes no sense at current but it would later when/if you're producing currency all the while with re-enabled coin economies to pay dwarves for doing relevant work and sustaining their rent without being dependent on gaining it from the outside world. It also makes them more in demand where they are needed than metalworkers which will simply become a be-all-end-all skill with the continued path of crafting new metallic objects and constantly nearby and working to just meet the needs of a fortress.

This hasn't been a request for very much radical change like a entirely new workshop with new recipies, yes you can perfectly sort out multiple forges with managers split across skill experience, and even the alphabetical order of the dwarf's name, its the spinner to the counterpart weaver as it were because metalworkers will be exceptionally busy in the future. Least to say that what's required of the job really shouldn't be put in the hands of a crude smith who makes rude gestured figurines for a living for exceptionally small and detailed high stakes artisanry to which the economic welfare of the fortress depends.

[Miles_Umbrae]

...
Migrant minters would become the new cheese makers.
...

I've never understood cheese maker reference .. because if any skill/profession is heavily overrepresented when I play it is fisher...

[Bumber]

How often do most players use metalcrafters? I find myself using most of my non-weapons grade metal on furniture, which falls under the blacksmith skill. There's nothing I need to mass produce that isn't better suited to other materials. Just the occasional chain, instrument, or minecart.

I've never understood cheese maker reference .. because if any skill/profession is heavily overrepresented when I play it is fisher...

Cheese makers require milk, which can only be harvested from a limited selection of animals once every 17 days. It's a particularly painful industry to set up.

I was tempted to say fish dissectors, but that's basically just a useless skill. More fisherdwarves could at least end up being useful in the future if the food surplus was nerfed. The problem right now is it's too effective.