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Author Topic: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading  (Read 1950 times)

Sergio_Morozov

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It looks like when military dwarves are assigned a uniform, they continously search if a better item is available, internally claim it as it is available, discard the item they currently wear with the purpose of equipping the better item.

However, it seems that items so claimed can become "stuck" and the warrior goes without pants for a year. (Maybe because "claiming" of one item can be done by several dwarves at a time, or because hauling jobs interfere with equipping.)

Hence, the only sure way to get a large military equipped is to give them all "specific" items.

Also checking all the time for better high boots is not healthy for the perfomance I suppose.

Finally, the suggestion:

rework the military uniforms scripts so that
  • Dwarves only shuffle their uniform on command, or only weekly/monthly/yearly
  • Dwarves always equip items they have "claimed" for their uniform (and not go barefoot while there are over 9000 high boots in storage)

A separate suggestion:

When a dwarf names a weapon or a shield, and uniforms are reassigned, it is hard to track whose that "growling ashes of midnight" willow training spear really belongs to. Would be cool if a decoration with the name and the owner was added to the item (dwarf could even carry his item to the fortress' best available engraver/jeweler for the occasion!)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2018, 10:33:43 pm »

You should report bugs to the bug tracker (part 2 of your suggestion).

Control over how often dorfs upgrade equipment without micromanagement would be very nice, yes. A check daily /check once option on the scheduler would be a good start.
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recneps

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 12:03:46 am »

Additionally, even if an update schedule system isn't added, units should definitely not perform equipment upgrade checks with active station/kill orders.
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anewaname

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 03:01:24 am »

The attempt to assign new items to military uniforms appears to be triggered primarily by item status changes (item was created or maybe someone else upgraded and dropped) and by modifications to the uniform (made on the military 'e'quip screen). There is a scheduled attempt that appears to be triggered once a month.

From a test embark...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Miles_Umbrae

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 08:22:38 am »

Military dorfs should only check for uniform-upgrades in a designated "Armory".

And I would also suggest a hierarchy turn-order where higher ranked/skilled military gets to look first if there is something there that is better than what they already are wearing.

And also a hand-me-down type of system where if the dorf discards a piece of armour for a better one the old one is added to the armory for others to have a look at to possible upgrade THEIR uniform.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 08:29:16 am »

Military dorfs should only check for uniform-upgrades in a designated "Armory".

And I would also suggest a hierarchy turn-order where higher ranked/skilled military gets to look first if there is something there that is better than what they already are wearing.

And also a hand-me-down type of system where if the dorf discards a piece of armour for a better one the old one is added to the armory for others to have a look at to possible upgrade THEIR uniform.
Heirarchy selection is the system we have right now.

Assigning weapons and armor to an armory seems like it'd get annoying quickly. Also kind of unrealistic. What dwarf is going to train all year naked just because the overseer forgot to move leggings from the armor pile to the armory? And what is an armor pile anyway, if not an armory?
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 08:16:51 pm »

Military dorfs should only check for uniform-upgrades in a designated "Armory".
Assigning weapons and armor to an armory seems like it'd get annoying quickly. Also kind of unrealistic. What dwarf is going to train all year naked just because the overseer forgot to move leggings from the armor pile to the armory? And what is an armor pile anyway, if not an armory?
I would support an Armory idea, either a stockpile-specific or even item-specific flag that designates whether or not something is available to be claimed, especially by civilians. My new fort is only in its 3rd year, and I've got an apparently kleptomaniac Miner who's already wearing an *«☼obsidian ring☼»* and a similar bracelet, which are clearly intended for export, but now I'll never see them again until the dude dies.

Anyway, being able to turn an item's Claimable flag(s?) on/off could help do things like tidy up cast-off clothing, or alert military units that a high boot is available without having to wait for the 1st of the month.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 09:26:19 pm »

Military dorfs should only check for uniform-upgrades in a designated "Armory".
Assigning weapons and armor to an armory seems like it'd get annoying quickly. Also kind of unrealistic. What dwarf is going to train all year naked just because the overseer forgot to move leggings from the armor pile to the armory? And what is an armor pile anyway, if not an armory?
I would support an Armory idea, either a stockpile-specific or even item-specific flag that designates whether or not something is available to be claimed, especially by civilians. My new fort is only in its 3rd year, and I've got an apparently kleptomaniac Miner who's already wearing an *«☼obsidian ring☼»* and a similar bracelet, which are clearly intended for export, but now I'll never see them again until the dude dies.

Anyway, being able to turn an item's Claimable flag(s?) on/off could help do things like tidy up cast-off clothing, or alert military units that a high boot is available without having to wait for the 1st of the month.
Is there a solution to this problem which doesn't require micromanagement? It's nice to have extra options, sure, very helpful when bugs arise too, but I really don't want to have to tell my military there's a boot available or suffer the consequences of forgetting.

I've set a uniform, I've ordered hundreds of armour pieces, now I just want the squads to figure out how to ensure they get upgraded equipment once in a while without the constant stream to the forges.
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Descan

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 09:49:27 pm »

Military and armories specifically are not working as intended and need a bug-fixing pass, if not a rework to some degree or another. This has been acknowledged by Toady.

That said, an armory Location (with a quartermaster who maintains and stocks the armory, perhaps) with armour stands, weapon racks, and misc. containers (ones that that actually work and can hold a couple axes or a suit without failure and without dfhack), along with standing orders of what items of what material and quality to stock (similar to hospitals* and taverns, just with more control) and from which Military dwarves take equipment from... That would be nice.

*though more control over the hospital, such as "prefer animal hair, disallow giant cave spider silk and HFS strands, and stop auto-loom when below ## of threads" would also be welcome.
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anewaname

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 10:24:25 pm »

Reassigning a uniform to a dwarf or to a squad solves most problems. It forces the re-assessment of the currently assigned items and resolves the issue of a dwarf with no leg armor, if you have accessible leg armor that will match their uniform. It also forces military to notice that stray high boot before the 1st of the month.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 10:29:29 pm by anewaname »
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Miles_Umbrae

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 10:38:14 pm »

A "hospital" with available storage furniture will automatically start collecting supplies up to the limit set by the player.
Same goes for the inn and the library, so why not have something similar for barracks, we could finally get some actual use out of the armor-stands and weapon-racks...
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Radircs

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2018, 03:48:31 pm »

Well, we already have the options to say, soldiers to store their items in the barrack why we don´t get the options for pick from the barracks or personal quarters or anywhere in the fort? This+an error message if a Dwarf can´t find all Items to fulfill equip need every time he starts a Militare related job and it would be perfect.
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fonzacus

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2018, 10:08:07 pm »

i usually set basic clothing armour until i have a bunch of masterwork gear on hand, then mass switch the uniform with shift enter. it eases the pain of having almost all of them constantly picking up equipments, and the new bug pf demanding a specific equipment after returning from an offsite mission.
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fonzacus

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2018, 11:04:23 pm »

A "hospital" with available storage furniture will automatically start collecting supplies up to the limit set by the player.
Same goes for the inn and the library, so why not have something similar for barracks, we could finally get some actual use out of the armor-stands and weapon-racks...
Military and armories specifically are not working as intended and need a bug-fixing pass, if not a rework to some degree or another. This has been acknowledged by Toady.

That said, an armory Location (with a quartermaster who maintains and stocks the armory, perhaps) with armour stands, weapon racks, and misc. containers (ones that that actually work and can hold a couple axes or a suit without failure and without dfhack), along with standing orders of what items of what material and quality to stock (similar to hospitals* and taverns, just with more control) and from which Military dwarves take equipment from... That would be nice.

*though more control over the hospital, such as "prefer animal hair, disallow giant cave spider silk and HFS strands, and stop auto-loom when below ## of threads" would also be welcome.

these 2 suggestions sound awesome. ive just started using bins again and many of my dwarves are missing a ton of missing specific backpack/flask/quiver.

or a new noble position. having additional reequipment checks like the update stockpile record converted to reassign equipments and schedule pickups. and probably (as others stated) force reequip on demand.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Military uniforms - cease automatic infinite instantaneous upgrading
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2018, 02:49:41 am »

ive just started using bins again and many of my dwarves are missing a ton of missing specific backpack/flask/quiver.
Then you're braver than I. I got sick of my dwarves not being able to find anything that I just restarted, not going to build a single damn bin this time. I've always eschewed quantum stockpiles before, but until bins get fixed, I think it's only fair.
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