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Total Members Voted: 14

[Taricus]

I'm very sceptical about those benefiting from the research credit on the revision, given it's the invasion capabilities rather than fighting after it's been launched.

[Rockeater]

We can make a floating version of the sled for moving equipment.

[NUKE9.13]

I'm very sceptical about those benefiting from the research credit on the revision, given it's the invasion capabilities rather than fighting after it's been launched.

Yeah, that argument could be used to justify the research credit applying to literally anything. "This improved radio will help us coordinate the invasion", "This new grenade will be useful when assaulting coastal fortifications", "This [Whatever] will improve our military, who are the ones performing the invasion". I'm pretty sure it has to be something specific to amphibious assaults to count.
That said, I wouldn't mind missing out on the research credit- if we can't think of amphibious-assault boosting tech to use it on, then maybe we don't need amphibious-assault boosting tech, and a non-amphibious piece of equipment without a research credit would be better than shoehorning in unnecessary amphibious equipment.

[Twinwolf]

A couple revision ideas, some amphibious and some not.

This is just me spitballing; I'm not super considering the viability of the ideas in general, to be quite honest. If any catch interest I'll try and add detail. An alternative idea would be trying to reduce the cost of the Apibaru, although I don't know how we'd do that.

BCU:
The Bersani Caelium Uniform is an evolution of our Bersani Standard Uniform. The Avalanche armor is superior to any infantry armor we have seen the Abberans use, but unfortunately, we can only produce so many suits of it. Meanwhile, they have managed to increase the durability of their average soldiers to a point above our own. We cannot allow our foes to hold such a widespread advantage on the ground, so therefore we must improve our own infantry equipment as well.

The Bersani Caelium Uniform is a fairly simple idea. We simply enhance uniforms with caelium steel plates in vital areas, thick enough to stop, or at least reduce the impact of, the average round from Abbera's standard issue rifle. While it won't approach the durability of an Avalanche, this will ideally still increase the durability of our average infantryman.

Armored Sled V2:
A variant on the armored sled. The power of it's levitation has been increased such that it may glide across the water, tugged by an Apibaru instead of pushed by a soldier. While a simple design, this should allow for both additional troops to be carried across the water and for them to have an easier time setting up defensive positions upon landing.

Aquatic Caelium Sled
A variant on the standard Caelium Sled. With power increased to levitate over water and the capability to be tugged by an Apibaru instead of pushed by a soldier, as well as additional armor over the engine specifically. This has a few potential purposes. One: The transport of additional soldiers (Ideally Avalanche-armored ones, due to the exposed position) across the strait. Two: Tugging artillery along with them will allow the Apibaru landings to have artillery support, a factor likely to be quite unexpected. And three: they could allow some supplies to be brought with the troops.

[Madman198237]

MoP did say in Discord that it depends on how you justify it....and "let our soldiers land on a defended beach in power armor WITHOUT lacking heavy-weapons-team support" is something our generals ought to appreciate.

[Taricus]

Given the Apibaru's role and armament though, it does a good job as being the heavy weapons support for it's troops.

...Maybe develop a variant with twin G3-12s to get a cheaper variant that excels against infantry to back them up, and to bring the transmission of both up to blueprint standard?

[Twinwolf]

Another idea from the discord:

[Name needed]

When assaulting fortified positions, sometimes troops will run into things that they simply can't get into, and grenades aren't enough to handle. Hence, this device. It is a heavy charge loaded with a combination of high explosives and gavrillium-u munitions. When detonated (after a sufficient time for the one who placed the charge to get away), the idea is that it will both blast through whatever defenses it is  placed against, as well as melting through anything (and possibly anyone) surviving the initial explosion.

(Quick and dirty infantry explosive for bunker-busting and other hardpoints. Side benefit, could probably be used as an excessive grenade by avalanche armored soldiers.)

[Madman198237]

No, it does not, since we will NOT be getting those down below Expensive, so they will never be plentiful enough. Being large, important, dangerous targets, they'll get destroyed first. And even though they're really good they still cannot go everywhere an infantryman can go.

Avalanche Combat Engineering Kit
Step one: Make shovel, except it's Avalanche-sized and made entirely out of steel. Step two, make a bag full of 10kg charges of non-Gavrillium-based (like our non-Gavrillium grenade) explosives with hand grenade timers, armed either like a hand grenade or using a long ripcord for detonating at a distance. Step three, take that same 10kg charge and then stick it in a steel casing with a Gavrillium cap bolted to one end. The explosion blows the cap off, but not before starting the melting process and stretching it into a concrete and armor-penetrating cone shape like a primitive HEAT charge that also melts anything it gets stuck in. Combined, these devices allow us to deploy combat engineers in Avalanche armor, fully capable of everything from major demolitions work on buildings or hardened positions (shaped charges are useful for blasting through thick concrete and regular explosives will destroy anything if you toss them inside first) to digging latrines. Oh, and trenches and foxholes and anything else you may need to dig out.

We expect to find lots of enemy fortifications in our way during our landings and will then find ourselves in open ground, in need of cover and construction capabilities, we hope this is enough to earn some extra investment from our generals.

So, modified explosives design and combat engineering design. I figure that everything is simple enough to be lumped together into a combat engineering revision, especially since we SHOULD be able to roll at advantage to help our upcoming amphibious assault. Making a beachhead and FAST is what makes or breaks this kind of assault.

[Taricus]

I can back a combat engineering revision. We're going to need it anyway, and who knows? We might possibly reach level 5 fortifications as a result.

Given how many resource nodes are on the map, it's only a matter of time before Apibarus do become cheap. Moreover the point of a downgunned variant is to get a cheaper one which we can still use; given that the LFG does actually add to the cost of the vehicle and being able to get more troops onto the beach to establish a forward base would be of an immense help.

Avalanche Combat Engineering Kit (1): Taricus

[Twinwolf]

Yeah, I'd vote for that.

Honestly, my main concern is whether we're going to get enough boots on the ground with VE apibarus. Although that being said, I guess their main concern will be clearing a landing zone for Perahudaras rather than pushing the assault themselves?

Avalanche Combat Engineering Kit (2): Taricus, Twinwolf

[NUKE9.13]

Alternative proposal (which I meant to write earlier, sorry):

Perahudara Better-Making:
The Perahudara is not good. Make better.
Specifically, (using experience from the Charybdis where applicable, as well as our previous attempts at improving the Perahudara):
Give it some actual armour (regular steel, to save on Caelium)- not a lot (10-20mm, roughly?), but enough to shrug off an attack by small-calibre weapons, and have a better chance of surviving attacks by higher-calibre weapons.
Encase the lifting engines in lead, thereby cheaply increasing the lift they provide (more mass=more lift).
Add a second (or third, if there are already two) propeller to the back, with an additional Gavrilium Engine powering it, to increase the top speed a little (or at the very least not decrease it due to the added mass of armour+lead).
The goal is to improve the Perahudara's ability to deliver troops and materiel under hostile conditions- the armour allowing it to land in areas that have not been fully pacified, the lift compensating for the weight of the armour, and the improved speed reducing the amount of time it needs to spend in the line of fire. Notably, as we have no cheap military watercraft, the Perahudara is our best option for ferrying our forces across the straits- the Apibaru will not be able to capture territory by itself.

Avalanche Combat Engineering Kit (2): Taricus, Twinwolf
Perahudara Better-Making: (1) NUKE9.13

[Madman198237]

For the Perahudara I'd shift the armor to the front and the bottom, or just the front and have them act basically like hovercraft (Come in low and fast and not expose anything but the front to enemy fire). And give it sufficient armor to actually resist enemy 40mm rifle fire, seeing as how they really like those things.

After that it needs to be fast. Not Charybdis fast, but at least 60km/h I'd think. Could probably ditch the propellers and go for another gravity-engine setup for more maneuverability. Wait no, that'd require a simple center of mass. Yeah, we should definitely aim for "much faster in a straight line", though. Maybe add a GravEngine fixed-forwards booster or something?

We don't necessarily need them to remain Cheap if they become effective enough to supplement Salamanders in the initial landings, I'd say. Though I think I'll probably still vote for the Avalanche demolitions kit since we should be literally capable of flying over their massive artillery guns without getting hit, before landing on top of their bunkers and whatnot.

[NUKE9.13]

If we want any chance of successfully crossing the straits this turn, I think we need a Cheap way of ferrying our forces across. Increasing the Caelium cost of the Perahudara will make it Expensive (assuming we get more Gavrilium this turn, which is our best choice). Of course, the Perahudara does work as a transport, but- as I understand it- it basically can't operate in contested areas. Our landing forces (&Charybdises) would have to be able to wipe out all resistance in landing zones without backup, which I don't think is feasible.

That said, I agree that we also need anti-fortification equipment. The question is which we need the most. I think the answer is reliable transport- all problems can be solved by just throwing enough men at them, after all.

There is a third case, wherein we absolutely require both, and our efforts to cross the straits will prove futile no matter what we do. But we should give it a shot, at least, since not crossing the straits will give them more time to fortify their side, further decreasing our odds of a successful crossing.

[Twinwolf]

I think part of the idea is we're sort of assuming the Charybdis and what Apibarus there are will do a good job clearing landing sites for the Perahudaras. I think we can reasonably expect them not to push any kind of air superiority thing, unless they abandon one or both credits in terms of getting across the water - I don't see how "Shooting down charybdises" is going to directly impact their ability to make an amphibious landing, even if it would certainly help to defend against one. It's worth noting as well, that "Combat Engineering Kit" might have value in Harren itself, and if they focus on the water this turn then we might be able to break through.

[Madman198237]

We have a Cheap way of moving massive numbers of soldiers across. We need a Cheap or Expensive way of making a beachhead, though. That means either dropping special-forces type teams behind the primary defensive line(s) to demolish as many guns and fortifications as possible to ease the Salamander assault on the beaches, or providing enough troops on the beach that they can brute-force their way through the defenses.


I think that you are mistaken in assuming that sufficient bodies is a good plan, or that it will work. If we just throw a bunch of men into a meat grinder we will lose. Deploying explosives like this allows us to disable large enemy forces despite being outnumbered...hey look the perfect job for an Apibaru assault. Attack in heavy armor, deploy small number of armored, highly survivable troops, destroy crucial enemy installations, then let the masses come in on Perahudaras and clean up.