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Total Members Voted: 14

[Taricus]

Yeah, that's going to require ballistic fibres to really get to a good standard though, especially given that a powerful enough shot could shatter the ceramics. If we had the myomer I could support it, because we would have that sort of fibre for the armour ready to go, but without it...

[NUKE9.13]

I mean, on the subject of armour: Tiger Armour would be mundane here. Unpowered plate armour is definitely plausible.

E: It occurs to me that there is in fact another kind of engine we could develop using Gavrilium, namely electrical. I'm sure Gavrilium could be used to generate whatever sort of electrical current we require.
I assume we can all agree that an effective engine will be quite important in the future, right? Like, if we want to build vehicles of any sort, having an engine ready to go would make things a lot easier. 

[Taricus]

Doable isn't the same as practical. And yeah, I can agree with engines being useful. But... by themselves they're just that: Useful. Not really gamechanging or anything.

[NUKE9.13]

Hmm, hmm. Engines not really gamechanging. That's an, uh, interesting position to take. Have you met my friend the tank? How about my other friend, the aeroplane? Or my casual acquaintance the modern warship? Or, you know, the combat tractor. The armoured car. Heck, trains. I sort of see your point that an engine by itself doesn't do anything, but they are absolutely gamechangers.

Anyway, Tiger Armour was a not-insignificant piece of equipment for United Forenia for a long time. Now, it required two sixes to reach that level of utility, but we're operating on a much softer level here; I expect an average roll would get us the equivalent of Tiger Armour no problem. If we wanted to, that is. I'm not sure we should be doing it right now- I'd rather work on tech we can build on in the future, groundwork stuff, ye ken?

[Chiefwaffles]

I'd be happy to vote for a Gavrillium engine if someone else were to make a proposal for it.

Anyways, here's something mildly-traditional to fill out a vital role at the start:
GA1 Cannon (please for the love of god give me better names please please)

Okay, so traditional Gavrillium exposed to traditional explosives melts the Gavrillium really fast.
We believe that by using a powdered form of Gavrillium intermixed with regular gunpowder Cordite condensed into relatively tight volumes, we can create an extraordinarily effect explosive. The exact nature in which Gavrilium melts -- extraordinarily rapidly, among other things -- combined with traditional gunpowder could very well allow us to make an explosive orders of magnitudes better than just gunpowder.

We aren't exactly reader to put the "Gavpowder" in infantry rifles yet, so we'll use it in a different vital piece of kit - artillery. The GA1 (Gavrilium Artillery) Cannon is a breech-loading 150mm caliber howitzer, designed to fulfill our artillery needs. Gavpowder allows the shells to go at significant speeds, causing more damage and at longer ranges than a similar conventional piece of artillery.

EDIT: Now made using Cordite at Nuke's request.
EDIT2: Now 150mm instead of 200mm.

Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (1): Chiefwaffles

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (1): Chiefwaffles

[NUKE9.13]

Make it cordite, not gunpowder. Gunpowder is an outdated propellant. Cordite is the propellant for the new century!

Anyway, I'm working on a Gavrilium Engine, but if anyone else has ideas, please share them.


Edit: Well, this was the best I could come up with.

Gavrilium Engine: Steam engines are so last century. Combustion engines are a dead-end technology, that will never amount to much. Gavrilium Engines are where it's at.
A Gavrilium Engine consists of Gavrilium rods surrounding a central crankshaft, upon which are mounted metal plates made of certain alloys. As a plate passes a rod, it draws energy from it, which is transformed into mechanical energy, propeling the plate, rotating the shaft. It somewhat resembles an electrical motor, except that the energy is drawn directly from the Gavrilium (hence not requiring separate batteries), and the mysterious energies that Gavrilium produces are stronger than regular magnets (hence resulting in more powerful motors at smaller sizes)(in theory magnets of equal or greater power could be created, but this is beyond our means at present).
The Gavrilium rods are enough to power an engine of moderate size non-stop for days on end, but eventually they will be depleted, whereupon they can be removed by a technician and replaced with fresh rods. (We may be able to find a use for Depleted Gavrilium in the future)
Prototype Gavrilium Engines have been built by eccentric sciency types for decades, but it is high time we dedicated our military budget to developing effective models that can be used to do... well, all sorts of things.

PS: The engine glows blue when in use. This has been identified as "well cool", potentially boosting morale, but in cases where a glowing blue engine would be a hindrance, a simple cowl can be placed over it.

Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (2): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13
Gavrilium Engine (1): NUKE9.13

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (2): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13

[Madman198237]

Gavrillium melts quickly, which is fine for some uses, but it probably won't work well in gunpowder---you need RAPID expansion of gas in gunpowder, and melting metal just won't cut it.

Also, a 200mm artillery gun is a little bit on the "Extremely oh-my-goodness huge" side of artillery pieces. Typical heavy artillery ranges from 120-150mm, light going from 75mm-120mm. No, there is no medium artillery, and yes everything gets smaller if you want a field gun instead of a howitzer.


Uh, Taricus? I was arguing against your statement about ballistic fiber-based armor being the only reasonable modern armor, not providing alternatives. You're also extremely, incredibly wrong about the ceramics despite the fact that I wasn't actually suggesting them as an alternative in any way---they're MEANT to shatter on impact. The shattering is what takes up the energy of the impact, preventing the energy from being transferred straight to YOU. Plate-carrier rigs with those plates are capable of turning a hit from a .50 cal sniper rifle (bullets capable of piercing ~1in of high-armor-grade steel) from "dead and your insides are now entirely on the outside" to "covered in a huge chest-spanning bruise, but not actually dead or even necessarily out of the fight".


I'm not sure we want to attempt something so insane with Gavrillium as you're suggesting, NUKE. Somehow extracting energy from the system like that is not only counterintuitive, but also makes it hard to imagine how ELSE we can use that particular ability of Gavrillium's. Also, if we stick to a "theme" for Gavrillium, i.e., it produces thermal energy and/or explodes, it might be easier to get more special functions out of it, since they're all obviously related and such. Oh, and it'll make it easier for us to consider ways to use the stuff.

[Parsely]

I don't think converting the Senapang into a semi-automatic is a revision-tier action.

Why not? We're modifying an existing design, so it should qualify as a revision, right?

Yeah, but we're in the equivalent of 1914.

Oh oh right, I see what you're saying. Fair enough.

Plate-carrier rigs with those plates are capable of turning a hit from a .50 cal sniper rifle (bullets capable of piercing ~1in of high-armor-grade steel) from "dead and your insides are now entirely on the outside" to "covered in a huge chest-spanning bruise, but not actually dead or even necessarily out of the fight".

There may be like, one video on the internet out there of a .50 round not penetrating an AR500 plate, but that doesn't mean you should rely on those plates to save you from .50 BMG rounds, which isn't even a common weapon an infantryman would face or should be expected to withstand. There's a reason the plates the US infantry wear are rated for 1-2 hits (depending on if it's steel or ceramic) from an intermediate caliber rifle (7.62, 5.56, and similar), because that's the greatest threat you can expect it to mitigate. Key word mitigate, because you don't save lives by assuming a guy who just got shot isn't critically wounded, that and weight are why plates are often made to stop 1 round.

Aside from the fact that our materials science and textile industry (kevlar is plastic fibers) probably isn't up to the task of making either cheap fiber armor or lightweight ceramic or steel plates, consider also that the armor modern infantrymen wear might not be the best in the type of war we're fighting. Modern infantry can cope with wearing heavy armor because they're mechanized and motorized, our troops have to walk almost everywhere and live in this armor in the field.

Still, I'm with you that having armor would be really nice. Why don't we try making a hard plastic or metal material from Gavrilium? If it's light and bullet resistant then it could fill this role.

Yeah, that's going to require ballistic fibres to really get to a good standard though, especially given that a powerful enough shot could shatter the ceramics. If we had the myomer I could support it, because we would have that sort of fibre for the armour ready to go, but without it...

The shots that ceramic armor plates are designed to stop do shatter ceramic armor, that's part of why it works. So you're sort of right, because you do need to back ceramic armor with fiber or metal. Modern plate carriers are made of kevlar partly to keep pieces of your armor backplate from flying into your body after it defeats a hit, just like anti-spalling netting in armored vehicles. Ceramic plates do a similar thing in that they are usually built with a thin metal backplate, so most ceramic armor is a type of composite armor.

---

Gavrilium Engine: Steam engines are so last century. Combustion engines are a dead-end technology, that will never amount to much. Gavrilium Engines are where it's at.
A Gavrilium Engine consists of Gavrilium rods surrounding a central crankshaft, upon which are mounted metal plates made of certain alloys. As a plate passes a rod, it draws energy from it, which is transformed into mechanical energy, propeling the plate, rotating the shaft. It somewhat resembles an electrical motor, except that the energy is drawn directly from the Gavrilium (hence not requiring separate batteries), and the mysterious energies that Gavrilium produces are stronger than regular magnets (hence resulting in more powerful motors at smaller sizes)(in theory magnets of equal or greater power could be created, but this is beyond our means at present).
The Gavrilium rods are enough to power an engine of moderate size non-stop for days on end, but eventually they will be depleted, whereupon they can be removed by a technician and replaced with fresh rods. (We may be able to find a use for Depleted Gavrilium in the future)
Prototype Gavrilium Engines have been built by eccentric sciency types for decades, but it is high time we dedicated our military budget to developing effective models that can be used to do... well, all sorts of things.

Now I'm imagining glowing blue Valkyria Chronicles radiators sticking out of our tanks. Hell. Yes. This totally makes sense as a use for Gavrilium too, it obviously contains lots of energy and it wants to let it out slow, so we can take advantage of that.

Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (2): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13
Gavrilium Engine (2): NUKE9.13, Parsely

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (2): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13

[Taricus]

Hmm... I could work with gavrilium plastics. Those could be extremely useful. Though in that case, I think we'd want to avoid using gavrilium as anything but an fuel/chemical component.

That being said, It'd be best if we developed a machine gun and an artillery piece first. Covering the needs of our combat forces before we do the wacky stuff.

[Baffler]

I'm not sure we want to attempt something so insane with Gavrillium as you're suggesting, NUKE. Somehow extracting energy from the system like that is not only counterintuitive, but also makes it hard to imagine how ELSE we can use that particular ability of Gavrillium's. Also, if we stick to a "theme" for Gavrillium, i.e., it produces thermal energy and/or explodes, it might be easier to get more special functions out of it, since they're all obviously related and such. Oh, and it'll make it easier for us to consider ways to use the stuff.

I have to agree. If we want to use it to power a vehicle I think the way to do it is to develop a steam turbine rated for it, or figure out how to liquefy it and do the same with an internal combustion engine. As-is I think it's maybe a bit too soft sci-fi for the setting. I like the GA1, but like Madman also said I think it needs a smaller shell, 150mm at most. If that use of gavrilium succeeds I'll revise the Mercun's design to integrate 'hot loaded' armor-piercing rounds using that stuff as propellant, but either way it's better to hold off until then on it since it looks like we have several pre-war turns (at minimum 6 more designs including these if I read the OP of the OOC thread right) so there's not really any rush for this turn.

Designs (2 total)
Reactive Combat Armor (0):
Mercun Pattern Heavy Machine Gun (0):
GA1 Cannon (2): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13
Gavrilium Engine (2): NUKE9.13, Parsely

Revision: (1 total)
Senepang-b Rifle, Self Loading (0):
M2 Dispersion Grenade (3): Chiefwaffles, NUKE9.13, Baffler

[Taricus]

On that particular note though Baffler, the Mercun as written wouldn't be an effective heavy MG. We kinda need fire rate for an MG to be effective.

[Baffler]

I figured 'slow' for a heavy machinegun was somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-550 rounds per minute. I based it on the Hotchkiss M1914 and MG 08 which both have a rate of fire in about that region. You're right though, the thing as written could use an edit.

[NUKE9.13]

Also, a 200mm artillery gun is a little bit on the "Extremely oh-my-goodness huge" side of artillery pieces. Typical heavy artillery ranges from 120-150mm, light going from 75mm-120mm. No, there is no medium artillery, and yes everything gets smaller if you want a field gun instead of a howitzer.

Oh, right. Yeah, no, downsize that to 150mm at most. I still think that small amounts of Gavrilium could enhance the effectiveness of a propellant, though.

I'm not sure we want to attempt something so insane with Gavrillium as you're suggesting, NUKE. Somehow extracting energy from the system like that is not only counterintuitive, but also makes it hard to imagine how ELSE we can use that particular ability of Gavrillium's. Also, if we stick to a "theme" for Gavrillium, i.e., it produces thermal energy and/or explodes, it might be easier to get more special functions out of it, since they're all obviously related and such. Oh, and it'll make it easier for us to consider ways to use the stuff.

I mean, as I see it, the theme is 'energy source'. It doesn't do cool stuff by itself, but it enables cool things. If this were Gravite, and I was trying to make it work as Myomer, that would be off-theme, but the engine is just another way of extracting energy from Gavrilium. I'll see what MoP has to say, though.

Now I'm imagining glowing blue Valkyria Chronicles radiators sticking out of our tanks. Hell. Yes. This totally makes sense as a use for Gavrilium too, it obviously contains lots of energy and it wants to let it out slow, so we can take advantage of that.

That was totally an inspiration. I was actually going to add that the engine glows blue. Heck, I might still do so- we can cover it with a cowl if it would be a problem.

That being said, It'd be best if we developed a machine gun and an artillery piece first. Covering the needs of our combat forces before we do the wacky stuff.

I assume that, just like we were asked this turn to develop primary and secondary infantry weapons, we will in future start-up turns be asked to develop the basics like artillery and machine guns. I'm willing to invest an action in artillery, since we almost certainly want two pieces- light and heavy-... and I suppose we could do a light and heavy MG as well. But I think that on the contrary, we should be front-loading wacky stuff, so that we can base later designs on it. Like, first figure out what we can do with Gavrilium, then design stuff based on that.

I have to agree. If we want to use it to power a vehicle I think the way to do it is to develop a steam turbine rated for it, or figure out how to liquefy it and do the same with an internal combustion engine. As-is I think it's maybe a bit too soft sci-fi for the setting.

Hmm. Thing is, an engine designed to take advantage of Gavrilium would have a much higher power/weight ratio than a steam/combustion engine.

@Man of Paper: given that it's still early days, would you be willing to comment on the rough viability of my Gavrilium Engine proposal? Is it stretching what Gavrilium is hypothetically capable of? Is it too soft for the setting?

[brightfractal]

On the subject of power generation what about Magnetohydrodynamic generators.

[Man of Paper]

The proposal is absolutely viable. When I set up the parameters for Gavrilium I took from the fact that you can burn it like coal that it can generate power. That is literally the only guideline I've given myself for it. If you want to do something with it that produces energy, whether it's electromagnetic like I feel the engine is pointing towards, or explosive like attempted with the M1, I'll allow an attempt.