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Space-Time

2 (14.3%)

Hammer Time

3 (21.4%)

Time...to die.

6 (42.9%)

Peanut Butter Jelly Time

3 (21.4%)

Total Members Voted: 14

[Rockeater]

AAV-15 'Salamander' Armoured Vehicle: (1) Taricus
AAV-15 'Apibaru': (2) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner
ALS-15M "Impact" Avalanche Booster System: (2) Madman, Rockeater

[NUKE9.13]

So, regarding what to design, I'd like to argue that a Salamander adaptation is the best course of action, for the following reasons:
-The Forenian blueprints give us a solid foundation, allowing us to create a superior product. The sooner we deploy this advantage, the better.
-I asked MoP on Discord, and he clarified that the majority of Harren's streets are wide enough for the Salamander to pass through (although there are narrow alleyways that it wouldn't fit down), meaning it would provide a meaningful bonus in the city- mobility and firepower far more potent than Roofed Sleds.
-Obviously it's an excellent answer to the request for river-crossing equipment. Sure, we won't be crossing the river this turn, but if we do it this turn we'll have plenty of time to fix it should it not work out.

That said, I do like the idea of boosting our power armour's mobility (although I have some nitpicks with the Impact system), I just think the Salamander (or Apibaru) would be better right now.

E: A counterpoint that Madman brought up on Discord: if we roll out a Salamander clone now, Abbera will have a chance to design countermeasures before we can use it to cross the river.

Which... is a good point, actually. I'm gonna think about it some more.

[Madman198237]

I want the Impact because it turns combat within the city entirely to OUR advantage, especially with Cheap Avalanches. Adding Cheap booster and Hammers would turn this into true armored combat. The enemy will be unable to shoot us, instead they'll have to engage our armored soldiers in melee combat.

Screw World War 1 themes, we could be going medieval

[Taricus]

AAV-15 'Salamander' Armoured Vehicle: (0)
AAV-15 'Apibaru': (3) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner, Taricus
ALS-15M "Impact" Avalanche Booster System: (2) Madman, Rockeater

As much as I have misgivings about your version of the Salamander Nuke, it is still more beneficial to us than the Impact.

[dgr11897]

AAV-15 'Salamander' Armoured Vehicle: (0)
AAV-15 'Apibaru': (4) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner, Taricus, DGR
ALS-15M "Impact" Avalanche Booster System: (2) Madman Rockeater

[Madman198237]

As NUKE mentioned, I have misgivings about revealing the Salamander *now*. Also, I believe that we'd be better served by making a leap in technology now, while we're winning. This leap also just-so-happens to turn the tide of armored combat from "stalemate" to "decisively our advantage". Which means that if the enemy retaliates against the Charybdis, we'll still be winning the ground. If they push the ground (for some silly reason [I'm not being sarcastic here] not following up their abysmal roll last turn with another try on an easier difficulty) we'll have something there to counter it (and the ability to shoot whatever their new thing is from the sky).

[Taricus]

Well, the salamander will help us win the ground more than what the impact would, as the salamander is armed, armoured and able to benefit our unarmoured infantry as well as our armoured troops.

Furthermore, if we think they'll push the sky, a Charybdis revision to make an air superiority version is relatively simple.

[Madman198237]

If the Charybdis needs an "air superiority version" we failed when making it. Anyway, all our troops CAN be armored if necessary---Avalanches are Cheap. Thus, something that benefits Avalanches benefits all infantry. And besides, if we end up with Expensive booster-equipped troops with hammers....well they'll still be larger, stronger, and now even more capable of ripping up enemy Paladins.

And, again, revealing the Salamander means we'll face more than just air defenses when we make the crossings---it's distinctly possible that the enemy will be prepared for air assault but not prepare nearly as much for boats...or rather amphibious APCs.

[Taricus]

All things considered they're going to need a bigger weapon to even scratch the Charybdis anyway. So no matter what, they're going to have the weapons to punch through the salamander's armour ready by the time we deploy it.

And an air superiority Charybdis version just eschews the larger cannon for a smaller gun and uparmoured to 60mm all round. Possibly even replacing both cannons with twin G3-12s as well.

[Madman198237]

They might have those weapons...but they may not have them in the right places and right configurations to actually repel a two-pronged assault.

[Taricus]

So if they are developing those weapons, therefore getting the Salamander into service is a priority as it forces them to adapt to it, and a combined arms assault would effectively be near unstoppable.

Moreover, the Salamanders could get our power armoured troopers into melee a lot quicker, though we'd need smaller melee weapons to fit within the Salamander's hold.

[Madman198237]

Um, no, and also unlikely. Aircraft do not have to spend working their way around terrain obstacles, thus the Salamander is going to be slower for deployment than the Perahudara.

The hammer would definitely fit if the armored guys fit. And rushing the Salamander into development is not a priority since we can make landings without it if necessary, or just fortify one place to level 3 and one to level 4 and force a stalemate on those fronts anyway.

[Taricus]

Using a revision to fortify those fronts would be a waste, since we'd still need the revisions to fix stuff. And the Perahudara is... well, it's not optimal for a combat landing. It's far too fragile and slow to be particularly useful there. To that end the salamander is better because it is armoured, faster even taking into account for terrain, and able to support it's compliment better by virtue of being well armed for it's size.

And to how that affects our melee performance? We can actually deploy the salamander closer to the front lines so that our Avalanches can get into melee quicker since the Salamander would need dedicated AT weapons to take it out, and depending how the armour rework on that goes, they'd need to design a new one altogether.

[Twinwolf]

Well, presumably the idea was to only revise one up to 4. I think there was some discussion in discord of the value of fortifying one of them up to 3 while leaving the other seemingly lesser fortified, as an easier target for them to focus on and then run face first into a fortification level they didn't know was possible, let alone in an instant.

[Taricus]

Which might be better done with Harren all things considered.