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[NUKE9.13]

Hmm. I figured giving it properties that are completely different from its initial properties wouldn't fly (aha), but if giving Caelium new properties is that easy, it might work out.

Making Caelium a base resource would be interesting, but I don't think it's necessary.

[Rockeater]

To put our design for gravity here?

[Man of Paper]

Hmm. I figured giving it properties that are completely different from its initial properties wouldn't fly (aha), but if giving Caelium new properties is that easy, it might work out.

Making Caelium a base resource would be interesting, but I don't think it's necessary.

Just as any reaction regarding [REDACTED] is viable as long as it falls under the broad field of [REDACTED], Caelium is capable of being manipulated in any way that would fall under the broad field of gravity manipulation. When I've said soft sci-fi I meant like, preeetty soft. These are wonder materials I wanted you all to get very creative with, and unless they have a specific purpose, such as the other idea that's been floated around, their usage is going to be very open in much the same way.

If you break it down to a bare-bones description, the miracle materials you guys design are elements that give you some power over the basic foundations of the universe. There's infinite possibility limited only by your ability to come up with something (and mildly affected by rolls). Keeping tabs on a half dozen related bundles of infinite possibility would be a nightmare. I'm hoping you guys understand why I made the call I did, though I get how from your perspectives it'd seem like a hot turd.

[Kashyyk]

If a certain design by one team defines a specific characteristic of Caelium, what would happen if the other team later attempts a design that would fundamentally not work due to the first team's characteristic? Is that where the resources would diverge, or would the second design fail?

[Man of Paper]

Let's use imaginarium, a resource with the ability to manipulate light, as an example resource.

If Abbera rolls a design using a polished imaginarium lens as a focusing crystal for a lightsaber and rolled high then a polished imaginarium lens will always work as a focusing crystal.
If Salvios later decides to try using a magnetized imaginarium ring to focus a beam for their illumination blades, regardless of how they rolled they would not get the same effect with the ring. However on a successful roll they would discover the use of the lens, keeping the design from being thrown to the laserwolves. If the roll is low then the effect isn't what was desired anyway, but they'd get an in-description hint to let them know the reaction they're trying to get is already possible, they just might need to try again.

[Taricus]

What to do about the Caelium/Gravite situation?
I Don't Care: (0)
Leave It As It Is: (2) Maximum Spin, Doomblade
Replace Salvios's Caelium: (4) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Rockeater, Taricus
...With Gravite: (2) NUKE9.13, Rockeater
...With a Design Credit: (1) Taricus
...Either, I'm not a Salvosite: (1) Kashyyk

Exactly why I'd say just give us the design credit as a refund MoP. Better than that trying to brute-force gravite and having to keep track of two similar materials.

[Kashyyk]

After Abbera creates lighsaber focusing lenses out of imaginarium, what if Salvios attempts to create infinite zoom scopes using polished imaginarium lenses? Do they proceed to shoot lightsabers into their eyes, or will the two instances of Imaginarium diverge?

[Rockeater]

What to do about the Caelium/Gravite situation?
I Don't Care: (0)
Leave It As It Is: (3) Maximum Spin, Doomblade, Rockeater
Replace Salvios's Caelium: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Taricus
...With Gravite: (1) NUKE9.13
...With a Design Credit: (1) Taricus
...Either, I'm not a Salvosite: (1) Kashyyk

Well, it does make sense now

[Man of Paper]

In that case I'd be giving a different method that would provide the desired effect on a successful roll.

[Jerick]

both teams aren't doing all that great in terms of being unique even outside of this specialty resource

That's the thing about arms races, especially ones with a little historical bent there are often correct answers to the engineering problems presented. I'd guess we've been pretty damn similar seeing with our more mundane designs as we're both preparing for trench warfare and both sides already knows what works from history. It is a constant problem with arms races that both sides frequently come to optimal solutions from different directions. I had believed you'd solved that for this arm race by giving each faction a unique physics defying wonder material that would propel each side down different distinct paths.

The problems I'm seeing are the Abberans not liking their first resource getting hijacked and the Salviosi don't like the fact that they've discovered an old resource through a design and that said design doesn't fit their specifications.

The problem runs deeper than this; when we were first voting for our specialty material I believed, and from the way the others on my team posted and argued they did too, that we were picking something we would base all our tech around. In essence we were voting for our team's identity. Even if we knew at the time that designing other wonder resources was possible (our second resource was one we discovered by accident and is completely mundane) the first wonder resource we got was always going to be our core resource. But now without any indication it was even possible the other team has access to the core of our power, access to our identity. Aside from making the players feel horrible it gives Salvios a distinct unearned advantage over us. If it turned out that Salvios's resource was simple better thought out and more imaginative than ours and gives them a massive advantage over us I'd be fine with that because that's what arms races are all about. But the Salvios having access to the resource we're basing eveything around gives them a massive advantage over us. One they're getting not because they were more imaginative or smarter than us but due to happenstance. I would like to state though that the Salviosi have been excellent sports through this and have been exceptionally reasonable.

What to do about the Caelium/Gravite situation?
I Don't Care: (0)
Leave It As It Is: (3) Maximum Spin, Doomblade, Rockeater
Replace Salvios's Caelium: (4) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Taricus, Jerick
...With Gravite: (1) NUKE9.13
...With a Design Credit: (2) Taricus, Jerick
...Either, I'm not a Salvosite: (1) Kashyyk

[Man of Paper]

Spoiler: Resources and Requirements (click to show/hide)

Each sector on the map has three resource "nodes" that can be developed. Once during each Strategy phase a team may choose to fill a resource node in territory they control with a resource of their selection. This does not cost any actions, and can be done until all nodes in occupied territory are in use. Individual nodes cannot grant more than one of the assigned resource, but multiple nodes can be assigned the same resource in a sector. The capital of each nation is a special case, as they start with two of each primary resource and two of a specialty resource.

There are three Primary Resources:
Ore represents the cost of an item in metals and other basic resources extracted from the earth.
Wood represents the cost of an item in lumber.
Oil represents the chemical fuel and lubricant required to run vehicles and machinery.

Each side is capable of "designing" new Specialty Resources based on the expected needs of some of their more ground-breaking work, of which they will need to vote on one for themselves by the start of the war. You will be capable of designing one of your own separately from the actions given to you during the pre-war turns so long as a decision is made by Turn 1. If you have a question about the benefits of a specific resource idea, don't be afraid to ask about it. Your other designs may also reveal the need for new kinds of required materials and there is no punishment for waiting to decide on a Specialty Resource for the Capital until the last pre-war turn to see what crops up.

Any design requiring a Specialty Resource that is not available will become [Complex] or [Very Complex] if already complex. Each level of complexity increases the Expense Level of the design by one, which is as follows:

Cheap: All Resource needs are met, and the design can be used wherever desired.
Expensive: If a design lacks 2-3 Resources then it is considered Expensive and will not be fielded in large numbers.
Very Expensive: A Very Expensive design is missing 4-5 Resources, and is rarely seen in use.
National Effort: A 6-9 Resource deficit is a National Effort, allowing only one to be fielded at a time.
Theoretical: Any Resource deficit 10+ is considered theoretical and will not be built until that changes.

Note: There is no Transport Capacity to worry about. If you control it you can use it.

I thought I made it pretty clear you could design multiple resources, but perhaps seeing that one was required before the start of the war was what made people think you would only be getting one unique resource? I left it open like that because there was always a chance you would both design the same specialty resource, and locking you into just that one field would've led us pretty much right here anyways. Like I said before, each team proposed an antigrav material at their 7th and 10th posts, and it was literally a single vote away from happening in the very first turn, and that's only because I didn't let Taricus guilt me into letting a later votebox count, bringing it to a coin flip.

[Jerick]

Huh, how in the seven hells did I not see that? Well I guess I owe you an apology. Sorry about accusing you of not telling us about that, it turns out I'm just an idiot.

[Twinwolf]

If it's possible to work with Caelium to give it new properties, and we can come up with new resources later, I think it's fine. Given the ideas Salvios had for Gravite, I think (/hope) that we'll end up using the same resource for different purposes, which *would*, I think, still lead to fairly distinct sides in that regard.

[Madman198237]

What to do about the Caelium/Gravite situation?
I Don't Care: (0)
Leave It As It Is: (3) Maximum Spin, Doomblade, Rockeater
Replace Salvios's Caelium: (5) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Taricus, Jerick, Madman
...With Gravite: (2) NUKE9.13, Madman
...With a Design Credit: (2) Taricus, Jerick
...Either, I'm not a Salvosite: (1) Kashyyk

I truly don't understand what the reasoning is behind combining these things---it's not as if we couldn't make you do the bookkeeping for half a dozen different special materials anyway. We'd just have to pick resources that aren't the same and you'd have to remember those. Why combine two (vaguely similar) resources into one (giving away one team's secrets without their consent, I am going to add) when it's just going to make bookkeeping HARDER? Now not only do you have to consider what this material does and what one team knows about it, but now you have to keep lists of who's done what and who hasn't done what yet and how those two lists must interact.

You're basically turning this into the race of Whoever Does The New Thing With The Material First Gets Their Goals And The Other Guys Better Roll High Or They Lose Out, which is obviously not a good idea.

[Taricus]

Why do you think half of us are trying to just get a design credit refund over it? Because if we don't do that we're just going to end up with resources that are effectively similar to one another leading to this argument happening all over again.

And combining the two resources only makes book-keeping harder if the GM has to keep track over two vastly different interpretations of the use of that resource.