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[anewaname]

Part of what I was considering was that a wound dresser could be using both the Plant Gathering and the Wound Dresser skills to choose plants for a poultice, and that the dwarf might choose to gather the live plant or a stored plant (possibly dried/cured). In some ways, this was a reference to the Herbologist concept that SixOfSpades brought up.

This thread topic may be "Tea", but it seems to be extended into the associated concepts of "uses of plants" and "the different conditions these plants need to be put in (fresh/cured/fermented/brewed/etc)" and "the specific knowledge(s) required by dwarfs to use these plants in an effective manner".

And it has not been said yet, but one civ might use one plant for a purpose and another civ might use another plant. Tea and coffee were brought into use separately in civilizations/cultures for similar purposes. Other plants were also used but I don't know their names or their purposes, I'm just a dabbler on this topic.

[GoblinCookie]

Is a teapot not simply a small barrel for storing tea?  And what of ice tea?  Ok, those aren't the point, but you're changing your argument from what it was, to being about cold tea. Stop it.  To be clear, your point about cold tea is valid in the context of the conversation we're having, but not in consideration of what you were trying to argue.  Item decay is such a marginal loss of goods that the effort required to gather new resources is not a meaningful consideration.

On the point he made, some goods may need to be gathered at use rather than stockpiled, like a stonemason requires stone only at the point that he makes a throne.

I was changing my argument to rerail the thread; sorry.  A teapot is more a pot than a barrel, but currently only barrels can store liquids.   

One of the main issues with tea is that (iced tea excepted) it's value tends to rapidly depreciate from when it is made.  That is what makes it different and more complicated to model than simply the alcoholic drinks we have at the moment. 

Except that if the culture is happy drinking cold tea, this isn't the case.  At the moment dwarves basically live on alcohol and cold ready meals, if they cook their food at all. 

[Rowanas]

Is a teapot not simply a small barrel for storing tea?  And what of ice tea?  Ok, those aren't the point, but you're changing your argument from what it was, to being about cold tea. Stop it.  To be clear, your point about cold tea is valid in the context of the conversation we're having, but not in consideration of what you were trying to argue.  Item decay is such a marginal loss of goods that the effort required to gather new resources is not a meaningful consideration.

On the point he made, some goods may need to be gathered at use rather than stockpiled, like a stonemason requires stone only at the point that he makes a throne.

I was changing my argument to rerail the thread; sorry.  A teapot is more a pot than a barrel, but currently only barrels can store liquids.   

One of the main issues with tea is that (iced tea excepted) it's value tends to rapidly depreciate from when it is made.  That is what makes it different and more complicated to model than simply the alcoholic drinks we have at the moment. 

Except that if the culture is happy drinking cold tea, this isn't the case.  At the moment dwarves basically live on alcohol and cold ready meals, if they cook their food at all.

Ok, fine, but if you're going to rerail, I'd like to know.  Now that we're back on rails, you're right, dwarves live on cold (but masterful) food and drink all day, every day.  Given that, I don't think we need to quibble about whether tea also obeys the same rules.  Yes, tea is better hot, but so is food. When heated food is implemented (if ever), tea should be included, certainly.

[Starver]

A teapot tends to be a reaction vessel/dispenser than any kind of storage.

[Egan_BW]

Maybe tea will be added on a whim and be simply a nonalcoholic drink stored cold in barrels. Maybe it will be added with economy and be something that rich nobles have their servants prepare in a teapot. Maybe it'll be added with mythgen and be mostly just a component for spells. Any of these is possible and probably equally probable.

[GoblinCookie]

A teapot tends to be a reaction vessel/dispenser than any kind of storage.

Teapots are actually pretty important.  The reason is that the main issue with tea is that tea-drinking is originally and to a large extent still is a ritual thing.  In order to further discussion of tea beyond the 'tea is just another kind of wine, we pick the leaves from the tree and make it into tea', we really have to think about how to work out the tea-drinking ritual. 

I thought that maybe instead of just drinking tea direct from the barrel, dwarves could have tea-rituals.  That would involve one dwarf gathering together a group of his friends, family and those he is on friendly terms with, up to the limit of the tea pot capacity (20 servings?).  Then he would get a teapot, go to the barrel while the other dwarves would get their mugs and sit on tables, the dwarf serving tea would take tea from the barrel and put it in the teapot.  Finally he would go serve all the dwarves in the group tea, similar to tavern keeper but the reputation would improve between the served and server and would be modified by how nice the teapot is.

Maybe tea will be added on a whim and be simply a nonalcoholic drink stored cold in barrels. Maybe it will be added with economy and be something that rich nobles have their servants prepare in a teapot. Maybe it'll be added with mythgen and be mostly just a component for spells. Any of these is possible and probably equally probable.

Practically anything could be an component for spells.  Tea as medicine is really not so different from any other medicinal potion, which is presumably not going to be so different to magical potions.

[Rowanas]

A teapot tends to be a reaction vessel/dispenser than any kind of storage.

Teapots are actually pretty important.  The reason is that the main issue with tea is that tea-drinking is originally and to a large extent still is a ritual thing.  In order to further discussion of tea beyond the 'tea is just another kind of wine, we pick the leaves from the tree and make it into tea', we really have to think about how to work out the tea-drinking ritual. 

I thought that maybe instead of just drinking tea direct from the barrel, dwarves could have tea-rituals.  That would involve one dwarf gathering together a group of his friends, family and those he is on friendly terms with, up to the limit of the tea pot capacity (20 servings?).  Then he would get a teapot, go to the barrel while the other dwarves would get their mugs and sit on tables, the dwarf serving tea would take tea from the barrel and put it in the teapot.  Finally he would go serve all the dwarves in the group tea, similar to tavern keeper but the reputation would improve between the served and server and would be modified by how nice the teapot is.

so you're suggesting Japanese Tea Ceremonies?  I prefer the tea and a natter system of the British.  Still though, tea-rituals are a good idea as an option for socialising.  Designate taverns as tea houses or pubs.

[FantasticDorf]

Wouldn't a pot be a metal jug?

Here, here's a picture of a teapot jug (warning its a large picture)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Starver]

Teapots are actually pretty important.  The reason is that the main issue with tea is that tea-drinking is originally and to a large extent still is a ritual thing.  In order to further discussion of tea beyond the 'tea is just another kind of wine, we pick the leaves from the tree and make it into tea', we really have to think about how to work out the tea-drinking ritual.

As an aside, have you read any of the Ancillary series, by Ann Leckie? Sci-fi, far-futuristic, but the society at the core of the tales (among other peculiarly progress/regressive traditions) sets great store on the Tea Ritual.

(Mentioning it is just a bit semi-random, I know.)

Wouldn't a pot be a metal jug?

Not necessarily. And, arguably, not ideally, for temperature-leaching reasons. You're not supposed to heat a teapot directly (unlike a kettle) and, though you do have metal ones, the ceramic ones are what you might think of. Maybe a dainty(-looking) white porcelain server small quantities or a big round brown hunk of a thing carted round the works or offices on the rattly old tea trolley. Or look up "Clarice Cliff Teapot" images for the Art Deco style and more impressionist designs.

A tea-urn is likely to be metal, maybe with an independent heating/heat-maintaining element to it (electric or maybe gas, usually), closest to a barrel that you'll find but still not really used for storage.

Full disclosure, though, I'm not really that fond of tea. But I've seen enough of it brewed (in the tea sense) to know how it is brewed, over here. And occasionally done it myself. But without the taste for it it's a hit-and-miss affair as to whether I've done it right (it wouldn't taste right to me, in any event, whether Builders' Tea or delicate fruit-tea infusions), which has gained me the reputation of not being the one to ask for anything other than the fetching of a tea-flavoured-drink from a vending machine that's pre-calibrated to approximate the stuff almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea that I can't mess up any more than the next most available pair of hands.

[therahedwig]

Uhm, if you really want to know. Coffee and tea made with boiling water instead of the preferred 90°C tastes/smells sour. That's it. It's kinda gross though. Had a conversation where the smell of badly brewn coffee was mistaken for the smell of cat piss. Now you know.

I am extremely neutral to tea rituals. Wouldn't heat a teapot directly either, unless we want to add 'burns from hot pottery handling' and 'exploding pottery' to the game. And then the inevitable 'lets invite the goblins for tea parties'-thread.

Part of me feels that liquid holding containers in general should be considered more carefully by the AI. Like, what is stopping dwarves from filling a jug with alchohol and drag it to their parties. Or a bucket. Or fill the jug with water for feeding to patients. All that is possible in adventure mode, but so is filling a minecart with water for drinking... I suposse this requires a liquids handling rewrite in general

[Starver]

Including orientation. A discarded/upturned bucket would never retain (more than a smattering of/any) liquid, etc. Or accumulate anything new if left out in the rain.

[GoblinCookie]

so you're suggesting Japanese Tea Ceremonies?  I prefer the tea and a natter system of the British.  Still though, tea-rituals are a good idea as an option for socialising.  Designate taverns as tea houses or pubs.

It does not really matter if it's British or Japanese, the mechanics cover both.   

Wouldn't a pot be a metal jug?

Here, here's a picture of a teapot jug (warning its a large picture)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The teapot could be made out of rock, earthenware, metal, wood or glass.  Functionally it ought to go with jugs and other dispenser type objects. 

Uhm, if you really want to know. Coffee and tea made with boiling water instead of the preferred 90°C tastes/smells sour. That's it. It's kinda gross though. Had a conversation where the smell of badly brewn coffee was mistaken for the smell of cat piss. Now you know.

I am extremely neutral to tea rituals. Wouldn't heat a teapot directly either, unless we want to add 'burns from hot pottery handling' and 'exploding pottery' to the game. And then the inevitable 'lets invite the goblins for tea parties'-thread.

Part of me feels that liquid holding containers in general should be considered more carefully by the AI. Like, what is stopping dwarves from filling a jug with alchohol and drag it to their parties. Or a bucket. Or fill the jug with water for feeding to patients. All that is possible in adventure mode, but so is filling a minecart with water for drinking... I suposse this requires a liquids handling rewrite in general

Nobody is heating up the teapot.  The teapot is full of cold tea from a barrel. 

[therahedwig]

Nobody is heating up the teapot.  The teapot is full of cold tea from a barrel. 

therahedwig cancels post, horrified.

[FantasticDorf]

Nobody is heating up the teapot.  The teapot is full of cold tea from a barrel. 

therahedwig cancels post, horrified.

Iced tea with a swirl of dwarven syrup comes to mind or some fruit could be very very nice & sickly.

The teapot could be made out of rock, earthenware, metal, wood or glass.  Functionally it ought to go with jugs and other dispenser type objects.

I am extremely neutral to tea rituals. Wouldn't heat a teapot directly either, unless we want to add 'burns from hot pottery handling' and 'exploding pottery' to the game. And then the inevitable 'lets invite the goblins for tea parties'-thread.

By that point @GoblinCookie it would pretty much be a 'social function' mug alterative rather than a liquid holder, unless taverns ESPECIALLY asked for teapots & jugs to use to pour exact amounts into dwarves cups.

[anewaname]

I don't understand why dwarfs, which need alcohol to get through the day, would ever see tea as something other than water that has been polluted. They would be suspicious about drinking it, and would make jokes and rude comments at a "tea ceremony", and generally do anything except drink the tea.