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Author Topic: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1, Revision)  (Read 12592 times)

Jilladilla

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #105 on: July 15, 2018, 08:51:57 pm »

I really don't understand this though. I mean, investing a design into something should create an improvement. A low role should just mean little improvement or dangerous flaws. This seems to have been a step backwards.

At first I assumed that it was just bad because of the flaw, and that fixing it would put it up to a nominal improvement over base tech. Instead, it seems is was bad *and* flawed.

Do things only get better in this game when you roll above average? That seems like it would push normal dice bias to an extreme.

It doesn't need life support; that's an improvement and could be quite valuable even as is in the future... As long as Life Support ends up as an incredibly precious commodity. If it doesn't.... Then this would be utterly useless for anything other than experience.
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frostgiant

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #106 on: July 15, 2018, 09:04:09 pm »

The ARR should be scrapped. The base mining bay is better in almost every way except for the fact it uses a LS. if we don't scrap the ARR I say we should never spend dice to speed it up. Not requiring doesn't seem worth the downsides, especially considering it still takes skeleton space and three times more power. Were on Emergency life support and it gives us 5, I don't see not requiring lifesupport to be worth the downsides and downgrades.

For production, I really Don't want to build more lifesupport because we need to make a better module and wasting mateirels on lifesupport is not something we should probably do., So we only can make 2 life support-requiring modules.

We could make 1 cargo hold (1500 resource cap isn't that much with the prices displayed) And 1-2 mining bays.

Production plan- Making Bank
Build 1 Cargo hold
Build 1 Mining bay

Costs
50 uranics, 50 Noble gases, 800 metal, 1000 non-metal.

Power 3/12
Lifesupport 1/10
Skeleton Space 3/10

Increasing the cargo hold because 1500 does not seem like a very big cap from the prices that we have seen thrown around right now, and its better to do it now before we need those resources in guns and armoring.
Mining bay is obvious, it doubles our income right now, and that sounds very good indeed. The ARR is not good enough to wait to build a new mining bay, and at minimum its going to cost 2 more dice, 1 to rush it because its progress and timescale are horrendous and 1 to make it actually usable, and that is at a minimum.

I am of the full opinion of scrapping the ARR (can't actually do that till design phase but still)

EDIT: wait we don't get respurces till after the superturns? Making nothing it is.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 09:07:04 pm by frostgiant »
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helmacon

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #107 on: July 15, 2018, 09:12:08 pm »

I think that the base mining bay can pay for itself in 2 turns, so building some now will give us 3 turns of production in a safe environment + the amount we get back when we scrap it. Lets build as many of these as we can now and scrap what we need to to make space when the first combat turn arrives. That should make us a bit of resources with no real downside.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #108 on: July 15, 2018, 09:15:56 pm »

I think that the base mining bay can pay for itself in 2 turns, so building some now will give us 3 turns of production in a safe environment + the amount we get back when we scrap it. Lets build as many of these as we can now and scrap what we need to to make space when the first combat turn arrives. That should make us a bit of resources with no real downside.

We can't mine until our showdown at Jump 3.

At least, that is what the Core Thread says.
Derp, opening post of here. Frostgiant has it.
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frostgiant

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #109 on: July 15, 2018, 09:16:30 pm »

"The Arks were intended to launch with extra supplies at the beginning, so the Navigational Computer states that the next stop is at Jump 3. We'll have three jumps to ourselves before we stop at a proper "stopping point" with resources we can mine - Jump 0 (this one), Jump 1, and Jump 2. We made sure to "borrow" some more materials before we launched, so we should have about the same amount as the Company's Ark."

Front page, we apparently don't make income until after the superturns. So I think we should just leave our resources.
theirs no point making it now versus making it turn 2.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2018, 12:16:04 am »

Update's waiting on an Ark name consensus, by the way.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Blood_Librarian

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Re: Arks Race - Consortium Ark (Jump 0, Production)
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2018, 01:05:56 am »

Quote
Production

Nothing yet: (1) Jilladilla

-----
Ship Names

Havoc: (0)
Anvil: (5) Jilladilla, Frostgiant, FallacyofUrist, helmacon, Blood_Librarian
Osprey: (4) Iridium, DoubloonSeven, Thanik, Crazyabe
Catalyst: (0)
BARK: (1) Cnidaros
Wait: (1) Blood_Librarian
-----
Group Names

Eternal Freemen: (0)
The Space Communists: (0)
The Union of Soviet Socialist Space Republics (USSSR): (2) Helmacon, Cnidaros
Vulcan Technocrats (0)
Tokari (7): Thanik, DoubloonSeven, Jilladilla, Frostgiant, Crazyabe, Iridium, Blood_Librarian
Wait: (1) FallacyofUrist
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 0)
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2018, 02:27:01 am »

Jump 0: Production Phase

With Jump 0 completed and the ship now in regular space for a short period of time, the crew mostly sits around looking at space. Some of the technicians suit out for EVA and paint the new name of the Ark - Tokari Ark Anvil.

Though something strange does happen. A report from the bridge arrives -- apparently an E.S.I. technician who hid from us at launch was in the Slipdrive this whole time and sent out a message to the other Ark (which thanks to handshake data, we now know is named the "Exploratory Systems, Incorporated Ark Endeavour").
Nothing particularly sensitive was sent, and the Ark Militia managed to flush out the sympathizer by tricking the Slipdrive's internal fire suppression systems.

It's frustrating knowing that Exploratory Systems managed to hide so many functions of this ship from us. One can almost respect them for that.


Regardless, it's time to get back to work. The Anvil's Slipdrive once again activates and rips the ship through reality, leaving you and the Ark's computers to do some designing.
Spoiler: Resources (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ark Anvil (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)

The Design Phase of Jump 1 has begun. We will encounter the Corporate Ark on the beginning of Jump 3.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Thanik

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2018, 03:55:03 am »

I do believe we can construct an automated resource mining module that would be much more effective than the baseline and utilize the existing mining bay for dumping resources, thus not utilizing skeleton space and clinging to the hull when not in use, doubling as armor.

Thoughts on this course for the drone program?
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Doubloon-Seven

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2018, 07:19:15 am »

Drone launching racks on the exterior of modules? Could work, but it seems like a waste of resources, considering the current cost of the bays.

Also, a plan:
Spoiler: Shoring up Defenses (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Vote Box
SUD (1): DoubloonSeven
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:47:36 am by Doubloon-Seven »
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Thanik

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2018, 08:07:41 am »

Drone launching racks on the exterior of modules? Could work, but it seems like a waste of resources, considering the current cost of the bays.

Also, a plan:

Quote from: Vote Box
AAA (1): DoubloonSeven

Stop using triple alliterations for plan names. It's irritating. Other than that, the Yggdrasil (you misspelled it) seems well defined, while I'd like to further work out the armor you seem to have planned, since it's pretty vague in execution or make-up. Depending on what we want to stop, we might want to specify some kind of thickness, though not doing that seems alright given we both have no idea what we're going to be up against (what kinds of ranges, masses, projectiles and speeds Chief has in mind) and the fact we don't know what our mass budget is on this thing, though we can assume it's pretty high given we have fusion reactors on-board. I'd replace the armor design this turn with a propulsion system, or otherwise the drone idea I proposed above, with the drones acting as armor on top of whatever we DO outfit the ship's hull with in terms of armor, both allowing us to focus drones on one side during combat and thus leave the other one free for resource acquisition and reinforce our armor mid-combat with more drones diverted from active duty or a passive status on the other side of the ship.

Alternatively, since we're dealing with one ship, we could set up flee-floating, large drone armor pieces with their own propulsion units and position those between us and the enemy ship at all times, thus creating what is essentially a massive Whipple shield and allowing us to layer them as we go, or otherwise attach them to the sides of the ship when not needed and store them that way, without really using up skeleton space.

Oh, and good impact resistance implies having a strong and stiff matrix and good interface bonds within the material, which is best achieved with unidirectional fiber composites. What you seem to be looking for is something with a very high tensile strength and to "catch" fragments or otherwise lose their kinetic energy via elastic deformation. Heat resistance isn't something you'll get far with with this type of material, unless you plan on using Bragg gratings or Silica fibers, though their impact resistance might not be up to what you want it to be for those kinds of applications, as they're generally used in optical applications where high temperature resistance is needed, but impact damage isn't a concern. Even then, I feel such high-temperature resistant materials are best used on top of our armor, if we use any, or underneath sensitive areas as temperature sensors feeding into an intel center on the bridge. What's more, alloys like Tantalum Hafnium Carbide provide both impact resistance and immense heat resistance (with a melting point at 4215°C), and high thermal conductivity 

The Kestrel has the go-ahead from me. The range depends on cross-section, so saying it should keep track of all objects a few cm "high" (in diameter, I assume, so with a circular object a certain visible cross-section and depending on laser intensity rather than sensor range), is a bit much. Depending on our sensors, we should aim to have perfect visibility of such objects from ten kilometers or more away. Given the Saker (a laser probably going into the "hundreds of MW" range in terms of power input) only takes up 3 power, we can assume we have enough power to melt away any kind of projectile with minimal energy input (1-2 power for an array doesn't seem far-fetched).

Overall, the Kestrel seems fine, if a little too specific in the wrong ways.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 08:18:17 am by Thanik »
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Noble Nafuni Engineer

Blood_Librarian

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2018, 09:26:59 am »

I think we should put a dice down on making an advantage for the Kestrels time to completion.
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Doubloon-Seven

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2018, 09:56:16 am »

Edited my plan with some of the things you mentioned. I also do happen to have an engine design.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Avanti!

KhazintheDark

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2018, 11:07:44 am »

I'm joining this side. I will only suggest somewhat Dwarf-based names since the ship was called Anvil.
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frostgiant

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Re: Arks Race - Tokari: Ark Anvil (Jump 1 - Design)
« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2018, 11:36:52 am »

I Really think we should scrap the ARR and either start a new mining bay replacement or use the dice we get back to improve the base mining bay.

The Yggdrasil is good, I think we should design it this turn.
I can go for the kestral.

Plan- Knowing when to cut your losses
3 dice to 'Yggdrasil' Biological Regulator
3 Dice to Kestral Point Defense laser
3 Dice to FE-J0 "Extreme Excavation" Blast Mining System
1 Die to revision phase
-Cancel Project:Automated Resource Requisitions


The ARR is useless, We need to cut our losses with it before we sink even more dice into something that will finish on its own in 7 jumps.
At a minimum to make it even possibly functional were looking at 2 dice, one to add to progress (even then only a 6 will finish it before the final jump, in which case we have to add even MORE dice to speeding it up) and at least 1 dice to try and make it function better then the freaking Basic level 0 mining bay.
When it comes to dice economy that's 2 Additional dice if we're lucky, 4 if we're not (on top of the 4 dice that we have already spent on it). instead, it would be much more dice efficient to scrap the project, gain 1-3 dice in the revision phase and use 3 dice This design phase to make something hopefully better.

Even if its not The extreme excavation design, we Need to cancel the ARR and make something else before it turns into a resource Gravity well that pulls down the whole Ark.

EDIT:
If people don't want to us the extreme mining system, here's a different design for a larger and more effective mining ship, because drones aren't working.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 12:15:23 pm by frostgiant »
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