Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ninjabread]

Not a big deal, can fix it ourselves in the raws, but stone axes in adventure mode can't cut. I get that softer stones like chalk and sandstone probably shouldn't be able to, but in DF, only one type of stone is ideal for knapping weaponry: obsidian.

I took the liberty of doing a little research, and according to this site and also a quick check on Wikipedia, chert was also traditionally used in knapping.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

chalcedony is also mentioned, but due to it being a gem group containing things like agate (which seems to also be mentioned separately to chalcedony for some reason) it's not really relevant in an unmodded game

and sometimes, depending on how it was formed, quartzite and rhyolite (and felsite but that's been removed) are also suitable stones for knapping.

I have edited my raws and copied the following stats from obsidian over to the other stones:

Code: [Select]

[IMPACT_YIELD:1000000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:1000000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:2222]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1000000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:2222]
[TENSILE_YIELD:35000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:35000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:114]
[TORSION_YIELD:35000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:35000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:114]
[SHEAR_YIELD:35000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:35000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:114]
[BENDING_YIELD:35000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:35000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:114]
[MAX_EDGE:20000]
This seems to have helped. Should be a fairly quick edit if deemed worth it.

[Miles_Umbrae]

All flint-like types of stones should be usable as smaller edged/cutting weapons like knives or axes.

[Ninjabread]

Yeah, that's what I tried to find out through my research, what exactly is it about flint that makes it good for knapping? What should be considered flint-like?

Turns out that flint, which is categorised as a kind of chert, doesn't have any natural planes along which it separates more easily, meaning that the main thing that determines fracture patterns is how you hit it, which subsequently means that you can make sharper edges and have more control over shape in general, because once you get a feel for it, the fracture patterns are pretty predictable. I've even seen some serrated spear heads and stuff, knapping is a seriously impressive skill and I wish I had the dexterity for it. I think the only other things that I found that also have this structure that I haven't already mentioned are glass and some metals, neither of which are too relevant for DF since glass already cuts pretty good, and if you make a metal weapon chances are you didn't knap it.

[Miles_Umbrae]

The more porous/brittle a mineral is the more it will crumble into sand when struck rather than get and keep a sharp edge.

[Ninjabread]

You'd think so wouldn't you? You're right about the porous bit, stuff like sandstone is better off as a ground stone than a knapped stone, but you gotta remember that brittleness is not weakness, it's more to do with poor elasticity, and if a material isn't brittle it can't be knapped because it won't fracture properly. You want things that are both brittle and hard, so that it won't shatter on contact with animal hide, but it's still reasonably workable.

[Miles_Umbrae]

I think you misunderstand what is implied with 'brittle stone'.
A brittle stone is one that doesn't survive force well without crumbling to sand.
Sandstone for example is brittle and crumble to sand from very little force.
Flint stone isn't brittle because rather than crumble whe struck it shatters into strong and sharp pieces.

[Rowanas]

Miles_Umbrae, I believe it is you who misunderstands what is meant by "brittle stone."

Brittle describes an object or substance that snaps or shatters rather than bends (low elasticity, as ninjabread said). Take the example of chocolate - It's not tremendously hard, but it is exceptionally brittle when cold, and so it snaps rather than bending (sadly, it doesn't carry an edge in my experience). Sandstone is crumbly and all rock is more on the brittle end of the brittle-bendy continuum, but flint is, like obsidian, prized for its hardness and ability to keep an edge.

[Miles_Umbrae]

Miles_Umbrae, I believe it is you who misunderstands what is meant by "brittle stone."

I meant that Ninjabread misunderstood me when he/she thought I used "Brittle" to imply "Weakness".

[Ninjabread]

tbf, it's easy to get confused between "weak" and "crumbly" but I suppose to call sandstone weak is to pretend that ancient Egyptian sandstone monuments like the pyramids aren't still standing.