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[scriver]

No, lip snuff, like we up here in Scandinavia does it. You put the snuff under the upper lip.

[piecewise]

No, lip snuff, like we up here in Scandinavia does it. You put the snuff under the upper lip.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-pregnant/which-is-worse-in-pregnancy-snuff-or-cigarettes-idUSL4E7JV13T20110831

" Snuff — ground tobacco that is high in nicotine but doesn’t generate the same additional chemicals as cigarette smoke because it’s not burned — is generally assumed to be safer than cigarettes, said lead researcher Anna Gunnerbeck, from the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm.

That’s still the case for many people, but it’s not a good option for pregnant woman, she added.

“(It) may have a little bit different effect than smoking, because smoking has the combustion products, but it’s still not safe during pregnancy,” Gunnerbeck told Reuters Health. "


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14586330

"CONCLUSION: Snuff use was associated with increased risk of preterm delivery and preeclampsia. Snuff does not appear to be a safe alternative to cigarettes during pregnancy."


Again, it MIGHT be less bad than smoking in some respects, but its still putting a highly toxic substance into your body and thus into the infant's body.  There is no safe or good way to do it.

[ChairmanPoo]

Well its not quite that bad

I would say it can be. Exposure to smoking and nicotine can cause all sorts of complications and birth defects, including miscarriages, placental abruptions, preterm delivery, cleft palette and so on. Its dangerous for both the mother and the child.

I'm not saying that smoking during pregnacy is healthy (edit: it should be quite clear that I'm not saying that because I said the contrary three posts before that). I'm saying that saying that someone who smokes should get an abortion is a gross exaggeration. 

[piecewise]

Well its not quite that bad

I would say it can be. Exposure to smoking and nicotine can cause all sorts of complications and birth defects, including miscarriages, placental abruptions, preterm delivery, cleft palette and so on. Its dangerous for both the mother and the child.

I'm not saying that smoking during pregnacy is healthy (edit: it should be quite clear that I'm not saying that because I said the contrary three posts before that). I'm saying that saying that someone who smokes should get an abortion is a gross exaggeration.

Its a personal question I suppose. Should an alcoholic not have children? Someone known to carry the genes for a debilitating inherited condition? Is it better to not have the child compared to making that child suffer for your decisions?

I can't weigh in there, that's a personal, moral, religious, ethical sort of thing.  All I can say is that the potential complications from smoking or nicotine usage during pregnancy are not negligible or something that shouldn't be ignored.

[ChairmanPoo]

Its a personal question I suppose. Should an alcoholic not have children? Someone known to carry the genes for a debilitating inherited condition? Is it better to not have the child compared to making that child suffer for your decisions?

I think that's overly dramatic. The sad reality is that the prevalence of maternal smoking is/has been very high, but, thankfully,  truly serious complications are not that frequent. It's an unhealthy habit that should be stopped, but hardly on the level of terrible inherited conditions. More likely than not the child will not suffer any permanent serious damage.

All I can say is that the potential complications from smoking or nicotine usage during pregnancy are not negligible

Agree insofar as it's an unhealthy habit and should be avoided both because of short and long term problems. Disagree if you're saying that pregnant women who smoke should be recommended to have an abortion solely because they smoke. That's... kind of irresponsible.

By the way: this is not meant to be a debate about being pro choice or not. This is about whether a person who smokes should be advised to have an abortion on medical grounds.

or something that shouldn't be ignored.

Not to be a grammar nazi, but that's a double negative. Surely you mean that the potential complications from smoking or nicotine are NOT negligible or something that SHOULD be ignored? If so I mostly agree 

[Caz]

pfft my mother smoked like a chimney and was piss-drunk all throughout her pregnancy with me and i turned out fine


/falls off bridge

[piecewise]

Its a personal question I suppose. Should an alcoholic not have children? Someone known to carry the genes for a debilitating inherited condition? Is it better to not have the child compared to making that child suffer for your decisions?

I think that's overly dramatic. The sad reality is that the prevalence of maternal smoking is/has been very high, but, thankfully,  truly serious complications are not that frequent. It's an unhealthy habit that should be stopped, but hardly on the level of terrible inherited conditions. More likely than not the child will not suffer any permanent serious damage.

All I can say is that the potential complications from smoking or nicotine usage during pregnancy are not negligible

Agree insofar as it's an unhealthy habit and should be avoided both because of short and long term problems. Disagree if you're saying that pregnant women who smoke should be recommended to have an abortion solely because they smoke. That's... kind of irresponsible.

By the way: this is not meant to be a debate about being pro choice or not. This is about whether a person who smokes should be advised to have an abortion on medical grounds.

or something that shouldn't be ignored.

Not to be a grammar nazi, but that's a double negative. Surely you mean that the potential complications from smoking or nicotine are NOT negligible or something that SHOULD be ignored? If so I mostly agree 

Do you have research to back up the idea that
1. Smoking during pregnancy is high
2. That it produces negligible effects
3. That these effects are rarely permanent


Also, I never said smokers SHOULD get an abortion. They should simply realize their habit can have negative effects and that it should factor into their choice whether or not to have a child.

[ChairmanPoo]

Yes. I very much do have evidence that maternal smoking prevalence is high. No, I'm not saying health effects are negligible, you're the only one saying that. I'm saying that it looks (to me) like something that should be prevented, not something  that would warrant by itself considering an abortion because of the risks (which was in the post immediately previous to my comment. Reading comprehension?). If you look at the statistic you'll notice that (assuming the sample is representative of the population) roughly 1/3 of British teenagers have been born to smoking mothers. So far I have not heard any reports of an apocalypse in the UK (barring Brexit, but you can hardly blame that on British teens, can you?)

I also looked up the risk of cleft pallate with maternal smoking, which is about twice as much as in the general population. That's certainly very bad, but,  given that the overall incidence is around 1 per 700 births, I think that it's not a dramatic increase in the absolute numbers. At the very least not bad enough to go into a panic about it. Most pregnant women who smoke won't, in fact, have children with clefted pallate


Have you even bothered to look up any of these yourself? In the future learn to do your own homework.


Once again: my point is tthat if you're going to talk about the risks of smoking (which are certainly not negligible. That's once again your term, not mine), you have to be realistic. Would I recommend avoiding smoking during pregnancy? Certainly.  I would also inform the would be mother of the real dangers involved, both for her and her child, short and long term. With numbers.   I would be very cautious before making any dramatic recommendations, as should you, if you're really a healthcare professional of some stripe.

[piecewise]

Woah buddy, you're getting very defensive and aggressive considering literally all I did was ask you for some information. I'm trained on cancer, not prenatal biochemistry, I'm just asking you to show sources for your claims like I tried to for mine.

And again, I never said she should get an abortion, I only said that the consequences of smoking should be a factor in her actions. Smoking CAN cause very bad problems. Is it a guarantee? Of course not and I never said it was.  For some reason you seem to be acting like me saying "Don't brush this off, its not nothing" is the same as me saying "You're better off getting an abortion instead of smoking." Its not the same thing.

But considering your tone and insults, I don't think I'm going to continue this conversation. I've said my piece.

[scriver]

He's referring tothus post:

Yeah, don't smoke or vape or chew or snort tobacco when pregnant. If you cannot quit it, have an abortion.

To which he answered:

Well its not quite that bad

To which you answered:

Well its not quite that bad

I would say it can be. Exposure to smoking and nicotine can cause all sorts of complications and birth defects, including miscarriages, placental abruptions, preterm delivery, cleft palette and so on. Its dangerous for both the mother and the child.

Which implies you agree with maryinuzz's statement that they should rather get an abortion than smoke during pregnancy.

[ChairmanPoo]

He's referring tothus post:

Yeah, don't smoke or vape or chew or snort tobacco when pregnant. If you cannot quit it, have an abortion.

To which he answered:

Well its not quite that bad

To which you answered:

Well its not quite that bad

I would say it can be. Exposure to smoking and nicotine can cause all sorts of complications and birth defects, including miscarriages, placental abruptions, preterm delivery, cleft palette and so on. Its dangerous for both the mother and the child.

Which implies you agree with maryinuzz's statement that they should rather get an abortion than smoke during pregnancy.

Btw... were you the one that told me about Rick&Morty?

[dragdeler]

-snip-

[martinuzz]

While I was slightly exaggerating with the abortion thing, I do have to say that someone who places their own addiction over the wellbeing of their child (unborn or not) might want to think twice about having children in the first place.
It's not just the health risk of nicotine for the development of the unborn child. If you smoke during your pregnancy, you are giving your baby a free cold turkey treatment once it is born and no longer gets the nicotine from mom's bloodstream. It's basically infant torture. You know how terrible and like utter crap it feels to kick the smoking habit? Your baby's first experience in this world will be pain and sickness. If you think that's okay, you are in no way ready to become a parent.

[Zangi]

Eh, you and yours will be fine enough.  A number of our last generation smoked and drank during pregnancy, look how we turned out.

The consequences have already been repeated again and again and again.  If you can't kick the habit, better to go with the marginally better option.  Which is probably vaping or chewing nicotine.
There may actually be programs to help pregnant women not smoke out there somewhere?  You could ask your local family planning doctor's office or something.

Not the best advice, but it is something that is workable.

[PTTG??]

Just to clarify, what's in the "pro" category of smoking/tobacco products?