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[FantasticDorf]

but I thought they were just too pious and had no time enough to pray to each of the gods

Pretty much, if you look in the profile screen of a individual dwarf they rate different gods differently. So if they can find some time & there's a temple open for them to go to, they'll either spend all their time in there not fufilling the need to pray to the other god (or other needs in general) if they have two counteracting strong beliefs in dieties because without some fiddling they can only appeal to 1 or end up stuck.

Musicians only affect relevant general needs, not prayer. There's just themed compositions & stories (where applicable) for temple but you'd get just as much from a musical tavern.

[taleden]

We covered tiny taverns (which has been linked to the findings page in the OP) a good few pages back to investigate this, as you said and i put in my previous post, socialisation is not a activity, its just a idling state waiting around for performances.

Prayer is the same thing, but its idle state is meditation.

Sort of. If you look into the memory structure of the activity in dfhack when a unit is socializing or praying ("df.activity_entry.find(unit.social_activities[0])"), you can see that the respective initial events for those activities ("activity.events[0]") are activity_event_socializest and activity_event_worshipst; if that's the only non-dismissed event in the activity then the dwarf will show "Socialize" or "Worship" as their job. But a social activity can branch into a sub-event ("activity.events[1]") such as activity_event_performancest ("Listen to Poetry", "Tell Story", etc depending on event properties), and a worship activity can branch into activity_event_prayerst (which could be "Pray to X" or "Meditate", depending on "event.deity_id").

So "Socialize" is an activity, but you're right that it's only the baseline event of the activity which will generally branch into performing/watching/listening sub-events.

Wait, then, if I understood correctly, ¿temples have little or no effect unless you assign performers? I've got this bunch of people always grumpy because they can't pray, even having temples to each diety, but I thought they were just too pious and had no time enough to pray to each of the gods.

¿Or is it part of the whole "socialize" stuff?

You certainly don't need performers in temples to satisfy prayer needs, I've never assigned any and my dwarves (usually) pray just fine. It's possible having a performer would let dwarves also satisfy various kinds of social or artistic needs in a temple the way they otherwise will in a tavern, I'm not sure. But it's also possible that doing that would make it less likely for them to satisfy prayer in the temple, so it might be a net loss for needs satisfaction.

However, there are a few quirks with dwarves trying to pray which may cause the issues you're seeing. One of them is that any dwarf with sufficient military training will prioritize "Individual Combat Drill" over "Pray" in their idle time, so they will *never* pray to satisfy their need, no matter how devout they are; you'll have to remove their training barracks or remove them from their squad to get them to go pray. Another is that if a dwarf worships several gods and you have a dedicated temple to one of them, they may go there to pray and get stuck praying to that same god repeatedly because they won't know to leave that temple to go to a different temple to pray to their other god. In that case you can temporarily un-assign the temple they're stuck in and they should eventually go to another one to pray to their other god(s).

Both of those quirks can also be solved with a dfhack script that I'm working on, but I'd really like it to deal with the issue of dwarves failing to seek out friends/family to socialize with and I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

[fortunawhisk]

Maybe the Attend/Conduct Meeting if you want a go here and chat thing? The CageLargeAnimal/ChainAnimal justice jobs might work if it's possible to socialize while being hauled off to jail? It might also be possible to set a destination for the unit to the position of a friend/family member?

[FantasticDorf]

Maybe the Attend/Conduct Meeting if you want a go here and chat thing? The CageLargeAnimal/ChainAnimal justice jobs might work if it's possible to socialize while being hauled off to jail? It might also be possible to set a destination for the unit to the position of a friend/family member?

Well really if you can just affect the nessecary needs with a script to roll over and always set the difficult/unfufillable ones to full then forcing dwarves to come together unnaturally (unless of course its forcing a meeting with !relative when it gets too low) is less effective than the DFhack script which simply sets all dwarves needs & stress levels to happiest levels.

Abusing game logic like the tiny taverns, and handling overspill by making them deliberately too small for a whole population of dwarves so that they either go to another tavern OR a meeting zone due to proiritizations always going towards the tavern. ((perhaps a DF script that can set artificial limit on the max number of patrons that can be in a large area at once?))

[pamelrabo]

I'm now kind of wishing the next update comes with a slider for insanity and stress effect, just like magic is going to have.

[AudiRgr8]

Hello all,

My fortress on 44.12 is currently at 7 years and here are my findings:

A brief backstory. I am playing a 1x2 (vertical) size embark on a small hill that is surrounded by scrub. It constantly rains human blood (except snows in winter) which has the sporadic power of raising any corpses under the direct vicinity of the mountain, hence a lot of atom smashing occurs and reanimated animal skins which is terrifying. I like to think of it as the mountain is trying to fight back against my dwarves and we are trying to conquer it.

My first embark attempt failed miserably when a werehyena (I've had about five so far) slaughtered my 20 odd citizens I had at the time, and the eventual reanimating corpses finished the rest off. My second embark was a squad of macedwarves that I thought could mash them to a pulp, yet they don't start equipped with weapons so died soon thereafter. My third and current was a squad of axedwarves that managed to defeat the undead host. As you can imagine however, the horror of an entire battlefield and delved halls filled with corpses was enough to scar my legendary mason, Medtob, for life it seems. Recently I've set up honeymoon suites and have had 4 out of my possible 12 marriages come through, but I'm worried 5 of them are stuck in perpetual 'lover' status.

Here are some photos of the fort, I'm trying to keep it pretty micro and small so that fps stays high. Also, as time passes and we conquer the mountain more, a colorful forest has sprung up, we like to see it as a reflection that we are taming the dark power of the hill.

If anyone has any tips on why my 'lovers' are no longer progressing to marriage and I've had two caravans suddenly dissapear en route to my depot which means I can't trade for that season. Also, so far no goblin attacks but population has been consistently ~35/40. I tried my best to include photos but I don't know if they have worked. Let me know how to do it if you know.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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[clinodev]

No luck on the pics, Tim.

Your best bet is probably to upload them to imgur and then just post the short links.

[AudiRgr8]

No luck on the pics, Tim.

Your best bet is probably to upload them to imgur and then just post the short links.

Figured out how to do it, cheers for the help!

[FantasticDorf]

Well your dwarves that have marriages in the picture, ALSO have dreams towards raising a family anyway, and given the experience of how dwarves remember things, they are experiencing the emotion of getting married as if it presently happened over and over again, not sure if that effects anything as dramatically as recounting a emotional state.

I wonder if toady will change lifelong dreams respectively when he retouches relationships to not caste dwarves as 75% craft-obsessed batchelors that are not good for fortress longetivity vs raising families and kind of tone it all down a little.

[AudiRgr8]

Yeah, or at least raise the standard dwarven preferences towards marriage from a 'meh' at the moment unless they're passionate about it to a 'yeah I'd get married'. I think someone who doesn't want to propogate and produce offspring should be an outlier, not the norm.

[Fleeting Frames]

They are outliers. It's just that dwarves don't seek out close contact with people they're interested in, outside of seeking out mayor, or children shadowing their parents.

[AudiRgr8]

Yeah, I think love interests and marriages shouldn't be something the long term player should have to micromanage, rather they should happen spontaneously and on behalf of the dwarves, so that sometimes we may even have to deal with the repercussions of a fast marriage (think Romeo and Urist)

[FantasticDorf]

Well ok then, in the space of shortly becoming friends inside a deep below ground civilian alert bunker set to active over a burrow, one my clerks became married to another.

They were then attacked by a naked reanimated corpse but through DFhackery i just healed them back up again to help preserve the moment.



Yeah, odd, im not sure whether to say this just conflicts cultural values or is a presentation bug, since they say a lot of relevative other things in after combat chats about vengance that are true and why should this be false, their family mood shot straight up to bright green after this happened.

The burrow is over a normal meeting zone, nothing particular and special and its not a large hall either but animals & dwarves are least close enough to be semi cramped.

I can't recreate it because some other circumstances meant i had to jettison the status of the save despite not really wanting to, but zombie polarbear people mauling, stealing supplies and then rushing towards my dwarves were a major threat.

My diagnosis would be to make a dedicated gathering hall of 100 squares and just RP hold a 'gathering' every so often with a civilian alert active to yank people away from jobs with as much forcefulness as you can. Bit micro'y to handle your global 'breaks'

For anybody who doesn't know how to set up a civilian alert its
> Make or have existing burrows
> Go to military screen, alerts
> Create a new alert
> Set new alert to [CIV] by pressing enter over the new alert
> Go to alert, and move across to the right to press and click [Enter] on your burrow to assign the alert

Hmm i wonder if [CIV] being over inactive by default causes problems because usually in my past fortresses i've never messed with it. Dwarves are a lot less militant as per observation without it on, so i dont know if it passively affects global behaviour.

• Haha mfw all civilian dwarves are secretly always thinking about doing combat drills without being in a squad instead of breeding and getting married if such a thing was true.

[Immortal-D]

Slight necro, but I made a very interesting (if useless) discovery in my current Fort.  If Dwarves are sheltered from stress for a long time, then exposed to a sufficiently high concentration of stress in a single burst, they can actually change from maximum happiness to depressed in 1 tick.  I used DFHack to reduce stress by the maximum amount, then had to hide from my first siege for ~1.5 years.  Eventually the invaders brawled with a pack of critters, resulting in numerous body parts scattered across my front lawn.  The map also rains Vile Sludge like 8 months of the year.

When the invaders retreated and I allowed everyone outside, a few Dwarves were paralyzed by terror; a combination of the body parts and accumulated sludge rain.  If they had been between early happiness and low stress, the stress hit of this event would have sent them into the unrecoverable 'haggard and drawn' state, effectively instantly.  The only reason I didn't have a considerable number of Dorfs become hopelessly depressed is because I artificially reduced stress by the maximum amount prior to exposure.  As it stands, I still had to pause all of my projects to build some emergency happiness boosters around the Fort.

[FantasticDorf]

I've heard of reports regarding this, also thanks for breathing life into it I dont mind the necro since there's still more to submit and I didn't feel like bump-double-posting over something if people have lost interest in it.

I've been using a new setup for my taverns, compiling public and private taverns together, then turning both of them off in autumn and winter so the dwarves distribute themselves without a location to visit by unassigning it but keeping it relevant with beds so people are still globally aware.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see, there are 2 floorspace zones which are defined seperately for the public (larger) and private (inner) tavern, when the zones are off its overlayed onto a meeting/dining hall which gets regular use but becomes a gathering floorspace. Containers are attached to the barrel zones which themselves are mini meeting areas defined between private (left) and public (right).

The decoration and table/chair value has pushed it to be a legendary dining hall but i feel there's still more i could do to make it masterfully tasteful.

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Turning the tavern off this way seasonally motivates my local monster hunter (in the 3x3 rented room adjacent with a cobaltite figure of himself on display) to actually work in spring and summer, else he'll slope off to the tavern eternally.

There are also interesting personal space setups in this thread in regards to personal temples so that devoted dwarves don't clutter up public areas.

• I might make personal shrine areas for devoted dwarves during times the main areas are off, and retire the public shrines in favour of the mass public/private temple instead as they still take up a lot of time in visitation. That statue backed by engravings looks good, i wonder if making a hall with 2x3's spaced out per religious dwarf might work alternatively.

Dwarves are STILL not looking at my officiated public museum (2nd picture top right with green glass windows) but will idly observe personal museums, which is quite good regarding things that they like, they will notice, hence cheap home-made artifacts are always in demand for rooms with a extra edge of value (besides blue dyed bags being very good value containers)

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