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[FantasticDorf]

The two options availible if you want to bring a river underground/closer to you is to either have a canal of running water or to translocate fish into a resovoir (like real fishermen do, releasing & breeding bass for sport fishing in lakes)

> For the first, i recommend you by a liberal use of bridges divert the flow of a river into a pre-planned path to the first stone layer where a channel spanning roughly 3/4 of your embark from length to length horizontally or vertically will be waiting, if you really want you can put some waterwheels ontop of it for axel power since its free.

> Control the bridges with levers and ensure the bit inbetween doesn't overflow with pressure and you have some emergency doors to close if you do. If it works correctly the water and your self-made canal will take the water (and fish in the water) through and out of fortifications dug into the stone on the opposite side.[/center]


Vermin breed by contact like animals do to sustain their numbers and keep a map presence even after they should have died, blinking in and out and continually spawning in a enclosed area they're released in. Though its experimental you CAN apply this to fish in order to get more of the desired type for food or just for decoration/aquarium's.

A 3x3 2 deep pool (or a 2x2 whichever is appropriate for how many/few fish will be wriggling in it) with pond released vermin fish will fill up but fishing this directly with very effective & highly skilled fisherdwarves dwarves will deplete all the resources quickly, so trap & transport from this 'fish-farm' for fishery workers to collect from to release into the main fishing pond where all your fish you're not using otherwise or trying to preserve will end up. You could try other things like mass loading a aquarium and releasing it with a mechanism underwater to release the fish into it at a deeper relative depth.

> Just some tips i learnt from experiements mass breeding hamsters for pets to sell to elves (out of contempt) & cave spiders (for controlled web collection)

[PatrikLundell]

@FantasticDorf: Are you sure this applies to vermin "fish"? It contradicts what I've heard so far that vermin fish presence is tied to 16 * 16 tiles (plus water, of course), and that they don't replenish. I don't have much first hand experience, though.

[FantasticDorf]

@FantasticDorf: Are you sure this applies to vermin "fish"? It contradicts what I've heard so far that vermin fish presence is tied to 16 * 16 tiles (plus water, of course), and that they don't replenish. I don't have much first hand experience, though.

I've yet to try the practical methods myself (after a year back i was doing some skullduggery trying to tame large creature fish at much time and effort expended making pens), but i am quite sure that lots of vermin together retain presence wherever they spawn and move to if in numbers, they simply spawn in river tiles from world populations the same way cave spiders spawn in the caverns, but can be took out of that enviroment and pernamently settled if ground vermin reliably proves by plenty of cave spider guides on the wiki and my anecdotal testing by trapping female hamsters inside a fixed cage that multiplied rapidly from males entering breeding range.

> The industrial cave spider use section here is wrong within the scope of my experience, and the spiders can be controlled by use of a Kennel & a weaver (for collection) in a area while cats are kept out, if the writer was true, all the spiders would be dead simultaneously or within a short space of each other by yearly checks but while unidentifable they persist. Mayflies for example expire naturally almost as soon as they appear.

That is unless the code for vermin fish is intangibly different to other vermin, pond turtles don't count but amphibious mog-hoppers (for production purposes of mog juice) are a ideal candidate from fishery caught sources this way or the more traditional (throw them in a hole). Egg layers only reproduce in worldgen and hence wouldnt appear outside of their existance within the appropriate biome.

> The fish also have to be opposing male & female genders additionally for practical reasons so moon snails and clams will not work (see:Hamsters).

> Theoretical fish breeder

WW&&
XWXXAWXF
XWXXXWX
XWXXXWX

Screw pump pulls away water from the aquarium tile with female fish inside so they can manage & add and relative to the rest of the pool 2 tiles of water are left remaining for male fish to live in, water is sent to a channel to resupply (little difficult to try and show diagonals so i left it to imagination) or the user simply lets dwarves refill the pond with buckets.

[Fleeting Frames]

slightly offtopic:
how about safety against raids? Is it somehow possible to fish indoors i.e. let fish through but no goblins or elves?

If you have a brook, you can easily wall it off on the surface - the dwarves will be able to fish in it, but the invaders cannot pierce its "shell" to swim through.

Not sure how to go about it if you have a large river instead, though. I guess you can go through the effort and cover it all with drawbridges, only leaving it open in the secure areas where the fisherdwarves are.

You can fish through a grate.

Alternatively, you could isolate 1 tile of river with 5 carts of magma or 5 built walls. Less if your river isn't 100% straight. Probably less work than bridging it over.

[Bumber]

Off-topic:
Is it possible to depopulate vermin from an area? My last fort's bedrooms ended up being built in the caverns, and there were cave spiders popping up every now and then. If one were to assign a bunch of trappers, would it be feasible to remove all the cave spiders from the area? Would I have to make sure the area was completely inaccessible from the rest of the caverns, or would doors and a detour through several z-levels and back be sufficient?

[PatrikLundell]

Off-topic:
Is it possible to depopulate vermin from an area? My last fort's bedrooms ended up being built in the caverns, and there were cave spiders popping up every now and then. If one were to assign a bunch of trappers, would it be feasible to remove all the cave spiders from the area? Would I have to make sure the area was completely inaccessible from the rest of the caverns, or would doors and a detour through several z-levels and back be sufficient?

I'd say no, since vermin are innumerable (excluding "fish", apparently).

[FantasticDorf]

I can say, while the stress issues regarding dead bodies seem to be resolved, my dwarves aren't making friends. Like, at all. Not a single one in the entire fort of 50 has made a new friend over the entire 3 years of this fortress's existence. The only ones who have friends are the starting 7.

XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXX XXXXX
 XXXXXXXXX
  XXXXXXX

The 35 tiles of empty down-dressed tavern like this (see above diagram & previous pictures) can service 70 dwarves in close contact because they will double stack in cramped conditions. Every dwarf visiting and lingering will be aware of other dwarves but only those with compatible facets will make friends because dwarves are intolerant of ideas different to their own individually more viciously than normal.

> this appears to be deliberate but maybe how interpersonally it affects dwarven social lives probably isn't, a oversight of the cultural model Toady gave default dwarves maybe.

But every dwarf citizen will have a different idea of a topic and clash until they find someone to stick to. I've had migrants other than the starting 7 form 1-2 friends irregularly and rolling up into 100 population, every 5 or so dwarves at least has 1 friend with each other. Nobody's married in 5 years but i guess it has to be a roll of fate for a dwarf to find a opposing mate they share the same ideals with.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I can say, while the stress issues regarding dead bodies seem to be resolved, my dwarves aren't making friends. Like, at all. Not a single one in the entire fort of 50 has made a new friend over the entire 3 years of this fortress's existence. The only ones who have friends are the starting 7.

XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXX XXXXX
 XXXXXXXXX
  XXXXXXX

The 35 tiles of empty down-dressed tavern like this (see above diagram & previous pictures) can service 70 dwarves in close contact because they will double stack in cramped conditions. Every dwarf visiting and lingering will be aware of other dwarves but only those with compatible facets will make friends because dwarves are intolerant of ideas different to their own individually more viciously than normal.

> this appears to be deliberate but maybe how interpersonally it affects dwarven social lives probably isn't, a oversight of the cultural model Toady gave default dwarves maybe.

But every dwarf citizen will have a different idea of a topic and clash until they find someone to stick to. I've had migrants other than the starting 7 form 1-2 friends irregularly and rolling up into 100 population, every 5 or so dwarves at least has 1 friend with each other. Nobody's married in 5 years but i guess it has to be a roll of fate for a dwarf to find a opposing mate they share the same ideals with.

There's a fix strategy for friendship being formulated right now. Due out before the Big Wait. Rejoice.

[tussock]

I have noticed in my young and small world that some dorfs have massive families at the fort too. If you're testing in a pocket world, especially a young one, all your migrant dwarfs may be related into a couple of big families, and if you're in as a cousin you can't also be a friend.

Which is just another condition required to make friends, can't be part of the extended family, and I guess they're also looking at half the rest as a love interest instead of friendship until they get married, which if no one's getting married won't be helping.

Did the fort burrowing each migrant wave separately check for pre-existing family links? I wonder if they also preferentially spend time with family instead of trying to make friends? That could seriously hinder friendship making.

[FantasticDorf]

I have noticed in my young and small world that some dorfs have massive families at the fort too. If you're testing in a pocket world, especially a young one, all your migrant dwarfs may be related into a couple of big families, and if you're in as a cousin you can't also be a friend.

Which is just another condition required to make friends, can't be part of the extended family, and I guess they're also looking at half the rest as a love interest instead of friendship until they get married, which if no one's getting married won't be helping.

Did the fort burrowing each migrant wave separately check for pre-existing family links? I wonder if they also preferentially spend time with family instead of trying to make friends? That could seriously hinder friendship making.

Dwarven lifespans produce a lot of children, while goblin and elven infinity tends to mean that progenitor parents churn out pages of children like horrible broodkings and queens. Humans tend to have a few children but self-regulate.

[Immortal-D]

For those of you using Dwarf Therapist- I just got my first tantrum at 20.9k Stress (haggard & drawn).  Oddly, he doesn't have a large number of memories in general, and the ones he does have appear pretty balanced;



Literally every other Dorf in my Fortress is fine, between like -5k & 40 stress level, even the Founders.  The Dwarf shown here actually is a Founder, and has a relatively benign job (Carpenter, minimal hauling).  As best I can figure, this guy has a naturally weak personality, and what pushed him over the edge is my lack of a formal meeting area for several years (I skipped an initial dining hall in favor of a tavern, which takes significantly longer to build).

[anewaname]

For those of you using Dwarf Therapist- I just got my first tantrum at 20.9k Stress (haggard & drawn).  Oddly, he doesn't have a large number of memories in general, and the ones he does have appear pretty balanced...

In dwarftherapist, you can see strength values for the emotions on the Emotions side panel. Some dwarfs are effected much more by certain things. I do not know how to bring up the list of emotions and strengths of just one dwarf, but you could click on each emotion of the Emotions list and with some guesswork, determine which where he is being effected the most. He might have some -100's for all those "lonely" thoughts. The Dwarf Details sidepage needs an Emotions tab for each dwarf...

[Fleeting Frames]

You can hover over their name.

[anewaname]

Right... I now recall being able to see the strengths there before, but cannot now. I did upgrade to 40.1 and set the options about a month ago, but didn't notice the missing info, not enough upset dwarfs. I'll figure it out or post to the DT thread.

[weiserthanyou]

Even with the new updates all that seems to be happening is that the tantrum spiral is slowing down. Half the fort is still on the verge of insanity and many of the rest still react negatively to everyone around them.
Or the the corpses that they have somehow not hauled despite being given coffins and a corpse stockpile 10 years ago. That are still in the dining hall and bedrooms. That they still refuse to clean up. These dorfs would literally rather hunt trolls of their own accord than haul the goblin skeletons out of their beds and chairs.