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[Shonai_Dweller]

Ha! We're doing OK down in the tavern, but one of the recruits of a dwarven siege stuck outside my gates has sunk into depression. Nice to see that works.

There was a close call which threatened the stress relief inducing atmosphere. One of the dogs in the tavern turned on a dwarven bard when the siege from their civ turned up. Managed to clear away the remains after the mercs had finished with him without too many dorfs noticing.

[anewaname]

I suspect that some dwarfs will be hard to "recover". I have one that "is a coward, completely overwhelmed by fear when confronted with danger" and "always tense and jittery" and "prefers that every one live as harmoniously as possible" and "has an active imagination" and "doesn't seek out excitement". That one "saw a dead goblin" and "relived seeing a dead goblin" at -100x2, so the effect of seeing that dead goblin is having a larger impact on this dwarf than on other dwarfs, and this dwarf may not be recoverable. But, the rest of the dwarfs are doing decent, with about 10% Unhappy, 10% Happy, and 80% Fine, and my fort still needs improving on many happiness vectors.

[PatrikLundell]

Ha! We're doing OK down in the tavern, but one of the recruits of a dwarven siege stuck outside my gates has sunk into depression. Nice to see that works.

There was a close call which threatened the stress relief inducing atmosphere. One of the dogs in the tavern turned on a dwarven bard when the siege from their civ turned up. Managed to clear away the remains after the mercs had finished with him without too many dorfs noticing.

Hm, that's going to be an issue with infiltrators, even though visitors have been fixed so they don't arrive in army numbers.

[Robsoie]

I'm always suspicious of how exactly is the impact of the addition of good + bad thought/stress given by a tavern in my fortress.
On the plus side, they drink a lot and they dance , so that's a good thing for their thoughts and stress.

On the other hand, as shown in my previous fortress (though it was in 44.10), they die (alcohol poisoning i guess) on a regular basis, and when they die it lead into more horror bad thought and get the stress up and the memory of those dwarves dying comes back regularly to shaken dwarves, leading some into unrecoverable depression.

So in the end i wonder if a tavern is really a positive or an actual problem due to how stress is working, even in 44.11

I wish i could just send the depressed dwarves to those newly built hillocks and recently conquered enemy sites that are linked to my fort instead of only being able to request workers, it would be helpful.

So far now that all the gobs dark pits are conquered, i am forced to send those depressed dwarves to the main gob dark fortress in which they're either captured or killed by the demon that is still there.
Wish there was other ways.

[Shonai_Dweller]

My dwarves are using the tavern to hang out with acquaintances, dance, sing, argue, drink, admire the artifacts, ponder the statues...it's great for them. Some have already recovered, those that haven't, aren't getting worse. There's a library with almost as much stuff for the more scholarly minded.

They're all dwarves so basically no-one dies of overindulgence (one tavernkeeper to run the whole sprawling establishment, so most people just help themselves...slowly).

Dwarves can be sent to the hillocks, or just exiled, with v-p. Send the haggard ones (so long as you can afford the loss of their families too).

[Robsoie]

I never noticed the "send away" in the v - p menu !
Thanks, it should spare lots of dwarven lives.

[tussock]

@tussock:
- Unable to acquire doesn't mean economy, but getting trinkets to wear (unless that's being extravagant, in which case it's getting nice clothes: I have trouble keeping track of which one is which).
- Lack of decent meals now means not eating/drinking favorite items, and you're unlikely to be able to satisfy more than a small percentage of the population given the complete randomness of their favorites. Cooking quality doesn't have any practical use any more (apart from buying out caravans).
- Away from friends/family: Largely broken, as they're incapable of seeking out friend and family, socializing with whoever they happen to end up next to instead. Friend group burrowing might help.

Cheers Patrik. So, hmm, favourite foods are probably doable but I'd have to think about it a bit. There's hundreds of trinkets in the fort, so I don't know why dorfs don't pick them up. Some do, there's folks turn up with crowns and rings and stuff quite regularly, so again just too busy to get around to it I guess.

I think buddy burrows might be a good idea. My temples tend to be mid fort anyway, and I mostly turn on related activity skill groups anyway, but I do definitely have some professions that make friends easily and they are the guys whose work is seasonal in nature, enough friends and they don't suffer from not finding one. Married people might benefit from being micro-burrowed now and then, with the kids. Hmm. Melting's a bit of a problem for burrows, though I guess the furnace operators can be an exception.

--

Yeah, as to it being stress inducing on these things, it does seem to be, my unhappy dwarfs had a lot of long term unmet needs, and some of them don't really have many unhappy experiences or memories up the top. Now most of them are dead, but that's another matter. Will see how the sad feelings about half the fort murdering the other half turn up in a day or two I guess.

[PatrikLundell]

My understanding of trinket grabbing is that the main method by which dorfs claim trinkets is by hauling them, in which case the ones wearing trinkets should mainly be the ones with trinket hauling enabled (whatever hauler category that is). I haven't investigated that claim personally, though.
When grabbing trinkets was introduced, there was a bug that cause dorfs to grab other items they liked, like pots made of particular materials they liked, and other heavy things. One of the amusing side effects of introducing a new system.

[Robsoie]

My fortress is now on year 9 , i have 40 dwarves left in it (it's been years no migrant came for some reason, my fortress was 80 dwarves strong in its earlier years) but none of the dwarves are under "great deal of stresses" anymore and none got into depression for this year.

I think the main reason is that i have been sending away (to a hillock affiliated to my fort) any depressed dwarves instead of throwing them to their death in dark fortress raze mission.
With no depressed dwarves around, it means they're not going to randomly tantrum/punching people/toppling buildings , leading to less people hurt (and so less stressed due to trauma) dwarves and no more dead (from an oblivious one or from a tantrum going worse leading to another huge spike of stress).

It looks like it's the solution so far to avoid the stress contamination. And the lack of "great deal of stress" confirm that in the correct condition (no depressed dwarves tantruming/hurting/dying around adding piles of new stresses to everyone) , this status can be recovered.

Now if only i could get migrants to get more canon fodders adults dwarves, as the kids aren't growing up fast enough.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Happy to report that some of my happy zone dwarves have recovered from 'a great deal of stress'. There's a pair who are taking more time about it, but they're not getting worse, so that's ok. Besides, they're kind of interesting to observe.

These two stressed dorfs, despite picking up long lists of 'acquaintances' during their time in my pleasure complex (sprawling tavern with several cozy dining rooms, museums, statue gardens and tons of visiting bards who can't escape because we're under siege), are spending most of their time with each other. Might they one day take the next step from 'acquaintance' to 'friend' without having to lock them in a box together? Each of them has the other at the top of their list of acquaintances (didn't start like that, guess it's in order of preference) and they seek each other out in various different parts of the complex after sleeping or wandering off in search of a goblet.

- I was rained on a couple of years ago.
- Yeah, I hear ya. Once I was caught in a snowstorm.
- See that dead bard in the corridor? Makes me uneasy.
- Yeah, me too. How are you feeling?
- Unfettered from spending time with people!
- Hey, me too! Let's go look at statues.
- Yeah!

[PatrikLundell]

:
Each of them has the other at the top of their list of acquaintances (didn't start like that, guess it's in order of preference) and they seek each other out in various different parts of the complex after sleeping or wandering off in search of a goblet.
:

Yes, as far as I've determined the relations list is ordered based on relation strength, and I've used that as a progress meter for maritial encouragement facility treatments.

Interesting that you've seen them seeking each other out, since that's not what I've seen. However, with tons of bards around to spend the relations points on, there won't be much progress between the dorfs if the points are spread evenly, but if they actually do seek each other out they should increase their relations a bit faster. It's possible to measure their progress with scripts, and it would be possible to compare that to visitor relation progress.

[Shonai_Dweller]

:
Each of them has the other at the top of their list of acquaintances (didn't start like that, guess it's in order of preference) and they seek each other out in various different parts of the complex after sleeping or wandering off in search of a goblet.
:

Yes, as far as I've determined the relations list is ordered based on relation strength, and I've used that as a progress meter for maritial encouragement facility treatments.

Interesting that you've seen them seeking each other out, since that's not what I've seen. However, with tons of bards around to spend the relations points on, there won't be much progress between the dorfs if the points are spread evenly, but if they actually do seek each other out they should increase their relations a bit faster. It's possible to measure their progress with scripts, and it would be possible to compare that to visitor relation progress.

Yes, I was surprised. There's more going on than just them being in the same tavern zone longer than anyone else and accidentally ruining into each other (although that's probably part of it).

[Saiko Kila]

On the other hand, as shown in my previous fortress (though it was in 44.10), they die (alcohol poisoning i guess) on a regular basis,

If the population is big enough, there is no alcohol poisoning even with performers assigned (though I'm not sure about actual tavernkeeps, since I don't assign them). I have never had alcohol poisoning, despite half of population spending entire time in the tavern.

[Shonai_Dweller]

On the other hand, as shown in my previous fortress (though it was in 44.10), they die (alcohol poisoning i guess) on a regular basis,

If the population is big enough, there is no alcohol poisoning even with performers assigned (though I'm not sure about actual tavernkeeps, since I don't assign them). I have never had alcohol poisoning, despite half of population spending entire time in the tavern.

Current fortress fatality by alcohol rate is 0.
This despite stressed dorfs drinking and enjoying themselves. One tavern keeper, big tavern, lots of visitors.

[Robsoie]

So far in my 44.11 it's 0 too despite we're on year 10 and the tavern has been running for a long long time ( 1 tavern keeper and 1 performer working there), i'm rather surprised considering how many dwarves dropped dead in the tavern of my previous 44.10 fortress.
Maybe Toady did some adjustement there too ?

Got my bookkeeper becoming haggard, the first dwarves in the last 2 years. I guess near 10 years in counting the stocks may not help, though the description had him happy in his work, so i'm unsure what did the problem, anyways, a recently conquered dark pit has now a new bookkeeper coming their way.

Still puzzled on how to have dwarves making friends or even even marrying in current version to solve their "lonely" "far from family" bad thoughts/stress, despite they're all close to each other in several meeting locations since those 10 years ....