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Author Topic: Stress & Psyche: 44.11+  (Read 140033 times)

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #495 on: August 16, 2019, 11:31:05 pm »

@pamelrabo: In my experience, river basins and ponds both refill with rain(if they're filled with magma, you get clouds of steam instead). Maybe you only have part of your embark raining?

feelotraveller

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #496 on: August 17, 2019, 04:56:58 pm »

My experience is that it depends on how much rain compared to how much temperature.  Sometimes the biome is too hot for ponds tor refill.  Also the size of ponds matter with bigger ones having a greater tendency to refill and single tile ones having great difficulty (would guess that runoff from rain is not modeled).  But totally agree that ponds/river basins can refill from rain... at times.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 05:00:39 pm by feelotraveller »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #497 on: August 17, 2019, 10:55:39 pm »

Oh yeah, totally have an embark where in summer even 7/7 ponds evaporate.

Crabs

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #498 on: August 18, 2019, 01:51:20 am »

Hello,

(tl;dr: What of the stress system is intended and what will be gone after the Big Wait?)

dug up my old account just to chime in. Came back to DF after a long time how so many people do but without checking the forums.
Now after I tested out the cool new raiding and pillaging mechanic and happily awaited a siege from the nearby goblin civ I started a war with and very obliviously stumbled into the stress problems this entire thread is about (and now I understand why this thread got so many pages...) The cleanupcrew got emotionally destroyed.
So my question is what of that is actually intended and what is not? For me personally it would be too much mircomanagement to go through all the dwarves and see who would suffer the least from cleaning up a battlefield so I'm wondering if Dwarves are supposed to be this... vulnerable.
If you ask me, they should care way less about certain corpses (e.g. corpses of another species that just moments ago tried to kill you with a huge army...) I'd even go as far and say that most dwarves should feel relieved after seeing a goblin corpse.

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Splint

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #499 on: August 18, 2019, 02:31:43 am »

Hello,

(tl;dr: What of the stress system is intended and what will be gone after the Big Wait?)

dug up my old account just to chime in. Came back to DF after a long time how so many people do but without checking the forums.
Now after I tested out the cool new raiding and pillaging mechanic and happily awaited a siege from the nearby goblin civ I started a war with and very obliviously stumbled into the stress problems this entire thread is about (and now I understand why this thread got so many pages...) The cleanupcrew got emotionally destroyed.
So my question is what of that is actually intended and what is not? For me personally it would be too much mircomanagement to go through all the dwarves and see who would suffer the least from cleaning up a battlefield so I'm wondering if Dwarves are supposed to be this... vulnerable.
If you ask me, they should care way less about certain corpses (e.g. corpses of another species that just moments ago tried to kill you with a huge army...) I'd even go as far and say that most dwarves should feel relieved after seeing a goblin corpse.

clinodev

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #500 on: August 18, 2019, 02:32:31 am »

Hello,

(tl;dr: What of the stress system is intended and what will be gone after the Big Wait?)

[...]

So my question is what of that is actually intended and what is not? For me personally it would be too much mircomanagement to go through all the dwarves and see who would suffer the least from cleaning up a battlefield so I'm wondering if Dwarves are supposed to be this... vulnerable.

It's broken, confirmed broken, intended to be fixed for next release. The framework is probably okay and a very cool addition to the game, but it's hard to tell, because very many of the things that relieve stress and fulfill needs are themselves broken. It is specifically not intended to be micromanagement hell.

My advice at this point would be to use either DFhack (remove-stress and fillneeds,) or the mod that's going around
(https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/af3sx0/mod_how_to_remove_stress_completely_or_lower_the/)
rather than learning all the micro tricks in this thread.
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feelotraveller

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #501 on: August 18, 2019, 02:45:46 am »

I would put it slightly differently, but its (mainly) a matter of emphasis.  :)

The system as a whole is intended and in all likelihood will remain intact after the big wait. Toady has stated that one of the intentions over the last cycle has been to make the game hard(er) again.

However there can be expected to be a (major...?) rebalancing of some effects, and one hopes a fixing of (at least some of) the bugs that result in other effects not correctly activating.  Everyone (Toady included) agrees that the balance is off at the moment - although various people have different opinions on the what's and wherefore's and how to 'fix' it.  ;D
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Crabs

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #502 on: August 18, 2019, 05:34:42 am »

Thanks for all the replies.
That relieves me a little that many people aren't exactly happy with how fargile the dorfs are at the moment.
I agree that all the new stress and bliss factors are a nice addition but as you guys said, it's not working in a fun way at the moment.
Also thanks for the mod suggestions, I might try that out.
Personally, I think the 7 starting dorfs should kinda expect what they're getting into as should the first 3-5 migrant waves.
Once you have a fortified small town with lots of luxury (compared to the first weeks people sleep in the dirt, no goblets/dining hall etc.) I could see dorfs who never go outside getting pampered and fragile. But ideally dorf society should raise their offspring in a way so that they don't break down at the sight of a battlefield since it's a relatively common thing to see in most DF worlds.
But I get that it might be a very finnicky thing to balance. You don't want robots that don't feel anything either.
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clinodev

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #503 on: August 18, 2019, 06:22:36 am »


Personally, I think the 7 starting dorfs should kinda expect what they're getting into as should the first 3-5 migrant waves.

I believe you'll find each of your starting seven, at least, "likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather," which does help a bit. (Apparently this only applies to cave adaptation, sorry.)

It's a great time to practice mountain, glacier, and evil embarks, by the way. There's so much less temptation to send dwarves outside!

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 05:22:05 pm by clinodev »
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Adequate Swimmer

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #504 on: August 18, 2019, 06:26:15 am »

IMO it should work like it does in 44.09. Stress should only become a problem if the player is blatantly doing things wrong, or under extreme enviromental pressure.
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Putnam

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #505 on: August 19, 2019, 04:40:45 pm »



Personally, I think the 7 starting dorfs should kinda expect what they're getting into as should the first 3-5 migrant waves.

I believe you'll find each of your starting seven, at least, "likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather," which does help a bit.

That's pretty much exclusively a message about cave adaptation, doesn't do anything about inclement weather at all actually, just makes them not feel nauseous upon surfacing

Bumber

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #506 on: August 19, 2019, 08:08:45 pm »

That's pretty much exclusively a message about cave adaptation, doesn't do anything about inclement weather at all actually, just makes them not feel nauseous upon surfacing

Wiki says the opposite:
Went outside while it was raining, snowing, or in evil weather. Ambushers are used to bad weather and don't get this thought, and dwarves who like working outdoors won't get stressed from this.

A dwarf with the description, 'likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather' is no more resistant to cave adaptation than a regular dwarf is. In fact, said dwarf may even have cave adaptation - this description simply indicates that the dwarf gets reduced happiness penalties from having to do without the comforts of civilization.
(This quote's from 40d, though.)
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Putnam

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #507 on: August 19, 2019, 08:16:20 pm »

That 40d quote's very wrong--it's literally a flat indicator of cave adaptation, nothing to do with resistance.

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #508 on: August 20, 2019, 09:13:50 pm »

Captain of the Guard is definitely bugged, at least for me. In my current fort I've had maybe 50+ CotG's since they always, aaaalways go nuts in a few months, no matter how peaceful it is. I would leave the position empty, but solved crimes are nice.
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mikekchar

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #509 on: August 22, 2019, 09:12:46 pm »

Just a quick tip for the rain: Make travel routes where you have cover from the rain.  This will reduce the amount of unnecessary rain that your dwarfs experience, without needing burrows.
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